Fisheries Committee on May 10th, 2016

[Kevin Stringer]

Can I jump in?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Could you please be brief, Mr. Stringer?

[Kevin Stringer]

I'll be very brief. Just a couple of facts: yes, they do produce some fish, but not much. I think 70%, we estimate, is North American-based. It could be higher, but the rest is European, so the Europeans and us have this concern in common, and we will continue to be vigilant on it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Mr. Donnelly, you have seven minutes, to conclude.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

How long would it take the department to develop and implement a new precautionary approach regime for the management of recreational salmon fisheries in eastern Canada?

[Kevin Stringer]

We're actually working on that for Atlantic salmon. In the way that we do it now, we have—I've forgotten exactly how to say it—conservation objectives for key rivers, for index rivers, of a certain amount of eggs per square metre. We establish that.

Now we are moving bit by bit towards changing that to a limit reference point. It may actually end up being approximately the same thing on the same basis. It was about a decade ago that we came up with our precautionary approach in establishing limit reference points for fisheries. We've done it bit by bit in all of the major fisheries.

This is one that we need to move ahead on. It takes about a year. It's about establishing a limit reference point, and that's a scientific process. It's based on productivity and the history of the fishery. Then we meet with the stakeholders and establish harvest control rules. These rules basically say what we're going to do in a given situation with respect to the stock. We establish a healthy zone, a cautious zone, and a critical zone, and we take different actions within those areas.

It takes about a year to do the limit reference point, and it takes a bit of time to do the rest of it, but we are trying to proceed that way.

Gérald, do you want to speak to the Gulf coast?

[Gérald Chaput]

What I should say about Atlantic salmon is that we have had a limit reference point called the conservation requirement, since the late 1970s. We have closed commercial fisheries in Canada because stocks were not meeting this objective. We have a history going back over 40 years for which we actually have a reference value. We're moving forward to the whole framework where decisions are pre-agreed to so that there's no debate or discussion with user groups. When the stocks are at a certain level, we know what our actions are. That would be very useful to do. It will take, in consultation with user groups and provinces, some discussion about our objectives, to agree on what our actions would be at different stock status points. It would probably take a year to consult with people.

[A voice]

In each area.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

How long would it take the department to assess wild salmon populations in all or most of the rivers in eastern Canada?

[Gérald Chaput]

That would probably never happen because it's a—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You can't do it? What about “most”?

[Gérald Chaput]

It's probably not doable because a lot of the rivers are very small in—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Are they rivers though, not creeks?

[Gérald Chaput]

Yes, they're rivers. They flow into the ocean, and have very small populations. Not only are they hard to assess, but there are so many of them that, practically, it is probably not that useful to assess every one. There are key rivers we can assess within a region, and use those as index rivers to manage an area. I think that's a more practical way to look at management questions such as that.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

So, a high-order river?

[Gérald Chaput]

Yes, but within all the salmon fishing areas in eastern Canada we probably have some rivers where there is monitoring taking place. We know if we have key rivers within areas where stocks are being monitored, and we assume from those stocks that they probably match the neighbouring rivers nearby. That's a very practical approach.

[Kevin Stringer]

Gérald, I think we do. As I said earlier, we have about 1,000 rivers in eastern Canada, and we have about 500 where we have some sort of conservation requirement, those limit reference points. But we have about 60 to 90 where we actually do an assessment based on counts and based on estimates.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's helpful. Would the department consider partnering with aboriginal groups, local watershed and community groups, universities, provincial government departments, and others, to complete this sort of an assessment to broaden your reach?

[Kevin Stringer]

We do, and we can do more. There's no question. In terms of fisheries stakeholders, for most fisheries we work with the Commercial Salmon Advisory Board. On Atlantic salmon and, I would say, on Pacific salmon we work with them. It's a passionate group. It expands enormously our ability to do work, and there's no question that we can do more.

[Trevor Swerdfager]

Minister Duncan and Minister Tootoo are going to make a fairly major announcement tomorrow morning on the disposition of our new science resources. A recurring theme in that, and what we are going to be moving towards, is a much bigger focus on partnership. The kind of thing you're describing is very much how we're orienting ourselves to do the science, the management, or what have you, but particularly, the collection and assembling of knowledge around conservation. We are fundamentally wired for an approach that very much involves the sort of stakeholders you describe, and the ability to enter into partnerships with them. For a whole host of conservation reasons, it will be foremost in what we are about to do.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Of those 60 to 90 specific rivers, how many have water quality monitoring programs?

[Trevor Swerdfager]

The majority of water quality monitoring programs are delivered by Environment Canada. There's a percentage, but I don't think we can give that right off the top of our head. Provinces are quite heavily involved in that as well. Certainly, it goes back to one of the comments we heard earlier, where we were trying to understand water quality and water quality conditions and relate them to populations. But we can safely say that the distribution of the water monitoring program is delivered mostly by Environment Canada and is quite comprehensive.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I want to follow up on Mr. Finnegan's earlier question about river-by-river management versus stock assessment. The specific question is, does DFO believe that a river-by-river management system of salmon stocks is the way forward, or do you still feel the current sub-management units are the effective management approach?

[Kevin Stringer]

I'll start. No question, that is something we would look at. It's something that we are looking at. When we talk about the number of rivers we have, it is a challenge. Gérald said earlier that probably, given the area that we're covering, we're going to have to continue to work with our approach, which is to index rivers, key rivers, as the signal for rivers that are nearby. That said, in some areas where it is a major river, a major producer with a good number of fishers, it is something we could look at.

[Gérald Chaput]

If you look across the salmon fishing areas that we currently have in Canada, there are 23 in eastern Canada and 11 in Quebec, and those areas actually correspond to biological units, they actually use management differently. In the Maritime provinces as well, we have management units where management is different. In Newfoundland, for example, they have different management areas. We have classifications that more or less fall into that as well, so we are actually doing area-specific management. Although people don't recognize it as river-specific, there are quite important differences in management when you go across eastern Canada, and when you go to different provinces and different regions. There is some variation in management regimes in response to stock status and different populations.