Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Yes. We have certainly heard the different perspectives from various groups on the west coast. We look forward to understanding the views of various stakeholders through the work of this committee. The department will support the committee by providing research and summarizing factual information about socio-economic aspects of licensing and fisheries management.

It's going to be very important for us to hear what folks say to you, and what you say to us, and then we will need to make a determination about how best to move forward.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I have one last short question. With respect to the hatcheries providing more chinook salmon into the system, will that strategy include hatcheries and activities further up the Fraser watershed?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

It's certainly possible. We have not fully made the decision about which hatcheries. Certainly, the main criteria will be which ones will have the greatest impact on providing available prey for the southern resident killer whales.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much, Ken.

The best dilbit studies done by the Government of Canada, in terms of honesty and replicating of natural conditions, are done by Fisheries and Oceans in the Bedford Institute of Oceanography in Halifax. The ones least likely to be accurate, because they were done in tanks of water in Alberta, were done by Natural Resources Canada. There's a preponderance of effort to focus only on the ones that say dilbit floats, and can be cleaned up, based on studies in tanks of water in Alberta.

As the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, I want to draw to your attention to the really good studies, which have been published and peer-reviewed, led by chief investigator Thomas King. They suggest that you are very unlikely to be able to clean up dilbit; that the oil balls will sink, and you'll have to heat them somehow, underwater, to get them up and out of the ecosystem. At this point, can you honestly tell us we have a clue about how to clean up dilbit, based on studies in your department?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

With due respect, Ms. May, we released last year a couple of different studies that had 57 peer-reviewed reports, I think it was, that said exactly the opposite of what you're saying. One of the folks who you quote on an ongoing basis is in the Royal Society of Canada report. The fellow who chaired that is a DFO scientist—

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I know that.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

—who will tell you that diluted bitumen behaves no differently in water than any other conventional crude.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I've spoken with Dr. Lee, and he hasn't said that when he has briefed parliamentarians here, so there's a difference of opinion and even a difference of reporting on the published documents that exist, but bitumen does separate from diluent.

The question of how quickly it weathers, how quickly it sinks and how we would possibly manage a cleanup is put in a particularly harsh light by the recent efforts off the coast of Newfoundland to deal with the Husky oil spill, which isn't bitumen and is conventional crude. We're really quite limited in the ability to respond in the open ocean in harsh conditions. It's difficult to see how anything in the oceans protection plan would give anyone on the west coast any comfort about the threat of a dilbit spill.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Well, again, I would rely on the science with respect to dilbit. With respect to ensuring that we actually are in a position to clean up spills, we have made enormous investments through the oceans protection plan to ensure that's the case.

Obviously, the most sensitive area with respect to the west coast is within the Burrard Inlet itself, and certainly there are enormous resources that are going into ensuring that we can respond to any kind of spill, whether it's diluted bitumen or the bunker C that is in the 3,200 container ships and cruise ships that come into the harbour every year.

It's important that we ensure that those resources exist, but I would tell you that even more important is ensuring that we are preventing those spills, and we are making investments in things like the radar stations that I announced last week in British Columbia to ensure that's the case.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Another quick question?

[The Chair]

You're done. You're way over time.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Mr. Donnelly, please, for three minutes or less.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I think I just have time for two quick questions on one of my favourite topics, salmon aquaculture, and specifically on closed containment technology. West coast wild salmon are under threat from disease and pollutants, as you know, and from sea lice originating from open-net cage salmon farms.

Many say that the future of salmon aquaculture is closed containment. The technology exists. It is economically feasible and the prospect of jobs and economic opportunities is immense.

Canada is well positioned to become a world leader in closed containment, but we need to act now. Globally, money is being invested in land-based salmon farming. Florida, for instance, as you know, is building a 90,000-tonne facility, which is the size of our west cost tonnage annually. There's no time for delay. Canada must invest in a safe, sustainable industry that protects wild salmon and employment and develops new technologies, jobs and export opportunities.

I want to give you an opportunity to tell the committee what your position is on removing these farms from the wild salmon migration route and transitioning this industry to safe, land-based technology.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

I made a few statements on this subject a few weeks ago on the B.C. coast. We will be moving toward a more fulsome implementation of the precautionary principle. We will be looking at moving towards area-based management on a go-forward basis, and we are working with the provinces actively to ensure that our efforts are aligned.

We believe it's important that we understand the current status and the potential barriers to cost-effective closed containment. We will be moving forward with a study on that, an expedited study, likely in concert with the province, ideally with terms of reference that are agreed to by both the environmental community and the industry, in order to ensure that we understand exactly where we are situated with respect to technology and costs, and to enable us, if in fact we are not quite there, to figure out what the pathway is to enable us to get there.

In the very same way that we did with solar and wind technology 20 years ago, we need to do the same thing. That would be closed containment on land and it would be closed containment in oceans.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you. I encourage you to talk with LandAqua. They have a 50,000-tonne proposal.

My last question in the remaining seconds is on whales. The supplementary estimates include $1 million for the whale innovation challenge, which is to fund a contest for “new detection and tracking technologies to reduce the risk of collisions [and] entanglements”, but it won't be decided until 2020. My question is, if the protection of whales is so important to the government, shouldn't we be investing significantly more money into public research into these technologies today?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

I think the immediate term is that we are investing significant resources and putting into place measures that we know are going to be effective today. That's both with respect to the right whale and the southern resident killer whale.

We are also investing resources internally in terms of science, but this is a challenge to Canadians. It's a challenge for innovative entrepreneurs to come forward with ideas that can help us with our internal efforts and the efforts of others who are invested in this space.

Maybe the deputy wants to speak for a second.

[Catherine Blewett, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

The minister is quite correct. What is interesting about the Nesta prize is that we were challenged with an opportunity for international expertise, so Canadians and citizens around the planet will have a chance to bid, so it's different. It's not the only research, but it really is looking for cutting-edge ideas, and it is being administered in an entirely independent way. That was just another opportunity to bring resources and focus on a really important issue for us.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

We'll continue with questioning to the government side now. We have some time remaining.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

I think my time is up, unfortunately. I have another engagement, but I think my deputy is going to stay.

[The Chair]

Okay, we'll continue with the questioning.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Thank you, all, very much.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Minister, for appearing. We look forward to your coming back again really soon.

Now to the government side for three minutes, Mr. Fraser, please.

I would like to welcome Robert Lamirande, director general, indigenous affairs and reconciliation.

[Robert Lamirande, Director General, Indigenous Affairs and Reconciliation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you.