Evidence of meeting #121 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dredging.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have 330 non-core harbours. I'm not sure how many don't have people identified to take them over.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I wouldn't have that number off the top—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Could you provide it to us, please? Thank you.
We also saw instances of infrastructure that had been designed.... This was multi-million dollar infrastructure that was basically destroyed by ice and sloughing almost within the first year of its being put in place, and there seems to be no accountability. There are discrepancies as to who is responsible—whether it's the designers, the engineers or the companies that did the work.
How many examples are there of infrastructure that has been rebuilt and has failed within the first two years? Can you provide us with a number?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We don't have those numbers on us. We would have to go back and take a look. We can certainly provide you with that information.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Can you provide us with those as soon as possible, before we finish this study?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. I understand you're concluding your study.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I will pass on the rest of my time for now, unless Mr. Doherty wants it.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Absolutely.
Sorry for being late, folks. I was meeting with the minister.
Part of the testimony we've heard previously is that harbour authorities are pretty well run by volunteers, and that they lack the capacity and at times the understanding of the responsibility that comes with being a director of a harbour authority or even the work that goes into maintaining that.
What type of training or programs does the department offer to harbour authorities in terms of their board of directors as well as any volunteers?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do have engagement with harbour authorities. There are a number of ways we provide that capacity.
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We provide training as well, and certainly information sharing. We get together with harbour authorities once a year and have a week-long session with them where we provide all kinds of information to them, as well as training.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you. We will have to get that in the next round of questions, Mr. Doherty, if you don't mind.
Now we'll go to Mr. Donnelly, for seven minutes or less, please.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to our departmental officials. Thank you for being with us and providing your testimony.
Just before I get into it, I'd like to mention that yesterday was World Fisheries Day. I'd like to acknowledge that we do have the independent fish harvesters, a lot of young fishermen with hopefully a bright future, presenting to us on how important it is that we, certainly on the standing committee, address some of the issues they have brought forward. We're hoping to look at doing a licence review and talking about some of the issues they're concerned about. They've raised the issue of owner-operator on the west coast, for instance, and hopefully we'll get a chance to travel to the coast to meet them and hear directly what their concerns are.
So thanks for being here and sharing your concern.
I've heard a good overview of the status of small craft harbours: 1,008 harbours in the country, 678 core harbours and 330 non-core harbours. We know the players involved: DFO, Public Works and the harbour volunteers. We know the fiscal concerns; you've given an overview of capital and ongoing or maintenance.
In terms of capital, we've heard about the five-year plans, the rigorous process, the socio-economic interests. We had some other officials at the committee a few weeks back. I asked one of them at that time if there had been a study of the core harbour facilities that looked at the fiscal needs for their capital replacement plans. He wasn't able to answer that question.
I'm wondering if the department has taken a look at it. As was stated earlier, there is a lot of temporary money injected, and that would be problematic or difficult at best for planning for some of the needs. As you mentioned, Ms. Frenette, it's over decades that we're looking at trying to solve the problem of investing in these harbours.
Has the department attempted to do a study to take a look at what the fiscal needs are in the near or even longer-term future in how we address the funding that's obviously needed to make the fix on these harbours?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have actually conducted a study. It was back in 2013, and we looked at the data that we had. Our estimation was that we would require $600 million over 10 years to just address rust-out and operational requirements at core fishing harbours to bring them up to fair or better condition.
That doesn't include, though, the additional pressures that the program is facing, particularly with respect to dredging. That's in large part due to climate change, the larger vessels that we're seeing, as well as increased harbour users, such as the aquaculture industry. But that's the best estimate that we've come up with.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Okay, so that's a decade. The study was done in 2013. So was it for the 2014-24 period?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That would be my understanding, yes.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
And did the government act on that? You've mentioned amounts over certain fiscal years. How much of that has been injected into that 10-year plan?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have gotten several rounds of infrastructure funding, as well as the latest budget 2018 funding, which would have taken some of this into consideration. We've also estimated, though, that to be able to do a lot of the operational work that we do on a yearly basis, we would pretty much have to double our A-base funding.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I think what you're saying is that government hasn't kept up to what the study has suggested needs to happen to even address the current problems, identified back in 2013, let alone the new and emerging challenges of climate change, bigger boats, etc.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They've tried to do it through temporary funding of two or three years in length.
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
If we include the temporary funding, are we 50% through this plan, or 75%, or 25%? Do you have an idea of where we are on that?
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We don't have data from 2013 to today, but as Sylvie mentioned, the condition of our harbours between 2011 and 2018 went from 73% to 87% in fair or better condition. The temporary funding has helped us to improve the conditions. It hasn't met all the needs, but it has been helpful to address the situation.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Certainly the budget 2018 funding has a focus on divestiture, so that's going to help us meet our objectives there as well.