Fisheries Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

You've looked at these possibilities, but has there been no action on any of them?

[Denise Frenette]

We've looked at those possibilities, but at the end of the day, because of the high carrying costs of the infrastructure and the low potential for generating revenue, the model we have in small craft harbours is still more costly.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's going to carry on to be—

[The Chair]

Sorry, but we'll now go back to the government side.

Mr. Finnigan, go ahead for five minutes or less.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to acknowledge and thank the group from B.C. for being here. I really appreciate your being here. I think of the future of fishing on the west coast. As you've heard from our side, we'd certainly like to visit you. I think we also heard from the NDP that they would certainly appreciate a visit. We're just hoping that the other party will do the same and we can pay you a visit.

Welcome, Ms. Lapointe and Ms. Frenette. Thank you for being with us today.

You said that the costs of dredging were increasing from $8 million to $21 million. Storms and other factors make it very difficult to predict the dredging costs from year to year. Should there be a separate budget for dredging? Is this something we should consider doing?

[Denise Frenette]

This would certainly benefit the program, because at present, the financial pressure from dredging is eroding our ability to undertake repair or construction projects. Indeed, it would be nice if there was a separate budget.

I would like to clarify something for the committee. The $8.6 million we talked about is what is normally spent annually. That being said, the costs of dredging are increasing and, in recent years, we have spent a little more than that amount. We used temporary funding, which helped us to partially reduce the financial pressure associated with dredging. The $8.6 million we talked about is the regular program. Costs are gradually rising to $21 million.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

We know that climate change is causing much stronger storms. The storm in Newfoundland and Labrador last week almost moved the island, from what we've been told.

Is climate change always considered in every new construction or development project? Is this factor always measured?

[Denise Frenette]

We have developed a tool that enables us to assess or estimate the rise in water level. We take climate change into account in the design of the infrastructure we need to build.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

I will now talk about the closure of wharves or harbours. Closing a harbour or wharf is quite costly. Are there any facilities that would be less expensive to maintain or continue to operate? Is analysis done every time a harbour or wharf is considered for closure? Sometimes it would be easier to continue to develop or operate it.

[Sylvie Lapointe]

The harbours we are trying to divest are those that accommodate recreational boats or that do not fall within the mandate of the program. It was decided in 1995, I believe, that the mandate of the program would be limited to facilitating commercial fishing. That is why we have an obligation to divest ourselves of these harbours.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

In my riding, we are going to have a robot that will clean the inside of the harbour, between four landmarks, much like the robots that clean floors in homes today. This robot will be tested in Pointe-Sapin, and it will be a first, apparently. I don't think it's been done before, but it has to be done.

Are you aware of new technologies, such as this robot, that will dredge the seabed?

[Denise Frenette]

This is the first time I've heard about this robot. It's interesting. I'm looking forward to exploring this idea.

I don't have an example of new technologies, but it's certainly something we're going to study.

To reduce dredging needs, we will need a long-term plan for our structures. For example, we could examine the orientation and length of our breakwaters or consider other protective measures when configuring our harbours. This could help reduce the need for dredging.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Finnigan.

Now we go to Mr. Donnelly, for three minutes or less, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lapointe, you mentioned that you've been with FOC for almost two decades. You've seen a lot of changes, certainly more than I have. I've been here for nine years.

I recognize the challenges that the department has had to face. For instance, from 2010 to 2015, the department faced severe cuts. Now, from 2015 on, you have a reverse problem of injection of funds.

I'm going back to that 2013 capital study. In your opinion, how much A-base funding would be needed to properly address the 10-year small craft harbours capital plan that was drafted in 2013?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

I think in terms of our A-base, what we've been saying is that doubling it would get us to a point where we could manage a lot of the challenges we have.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That could be a recommendation this committee comes forward with, and that's very helpful. Sure, there needs to be more studies and more data. However, we've certainly heard, from travelling to both coasts and in central Canada, that there are common needs and there are more problems than there is money to fix them, even with the injection of temporary funding.

That's really helpful.

In the minute I have left, what would you say are the top three challenges that face our harbours?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

We talked about climate change. That's a huge issue not only in terms of keeping up with dredging requirements, but in dealing with, as was mentioned, intensity of storms and damage and repairs to our small craft harbours.

The second one I would say is that what we're seeing amongst the harbour authorities is that they're volunteers who have increasing challenges and complex responsibilities. There's not a lot of renewal in terms of the volunteers we have.

I'll let Denise pick a third.

[Denise Frenette]

The overcrowding issue is something which we also need to address. That's very challenging, very costly. When we don't address the overcrowding issue, we run into some very challenging safety issues.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

We have a bold recommendation and have identified three major challenges.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

We've gone through our rounds of questioning. The departmental officials are here until five o'clock, so will we continue on with four-minute sessions to maybe get in as many as possible?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair]

Mr. Hardie, you have four minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, sir.

I have a couple of questions.

The initial focus was obviously on support for the fishing industry because of the economic benefits that brings to communities. We've certainly seen, though, especially in central Canada and on the Pacific coast, that the recreational side is in some cases even more beneficial to the community as far as the economics are concerned.

Would small craft harbours start to perhaps contemplate or even recommend that we expand our scope, in terms of the necessity and the economic benefits of including the recreational side?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

At this stage, with the challenges we face and the resources at our disposal, I don't think we'd be in a position to take on the additional piece around recreational activities. I also mentioned aquaculture as an increasingly interested industry that accesses our harbours.