Evidence of meeting #132 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was licences.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
The vote is not going to be any faster. We did agree to extend by 15 minutes, and we still have nine minutes left in that 15 minutes.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
What's the order? Is everybody going to have the same opportunity?
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Yes, they will each have three minutes.
I thought you wanted to ask a question.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
We did unanimously say we were staying for 15 minutes. We have nine minutes of questioning available.
Mr. Hardie, you have three minutes.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you very much.
For the people on video conference, if you can answer this question, please make your answers short.
Is there available quota for all available licences, or do we have more licences around than we have quota to fulfill, at least in terms of coming up with, if you like, livable income for somebody?
Who wants to start with that?
As an Individual
I'll start, if I may. Last year, there were 45,000 tonnes of unfished quota. That was above and beyond what we harvested last year in terms of what was allocated or identified as total allowable catch for British Colombia.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Why would that be? If everybody is looking for quota because they want to go out fishing, why was so much quota left unclaimed?
As an Individual
It's because it's in the hands of a few, because it's harder to find—there's no bank or repository where you can go and identify that—and because people will want money for it.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Ms. Sutcliffe, I come to you on the issue of PIIFCAF. We've heard that some of the bands basically sell their quota or lease it on the open market. This seems not to be in line with what PIIFCAF was intended to do, which was to put fishing back into the hands of first nations communities.
Vice-President, Programs, Ecotrust Canada
I think you're referring to PICFI.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Yes, I'm sorry.
I had an east coast flashback there for a second.
Vice-President, Programs, Ecotrust Canada
That's okay. They're very similar acronyms.
It depends on the CFE, community fishing enterprise. They have different models. Some lease out to the highest bidder, and some have very strict rules around prioritizing their own nation members. It really depends from one to the other. There are criticisms from many local first nation fishermen I know, who say they can't access local licences and quota because of the leasing to highest bidder model that occurs.
I am hesitant to speak to that in detail, since I do not work with all the nations. I mainly know from anecdote.
Research Director, Canadian Council of Professional Fish Harvesters
Just to answer your first question, yes, there are fleets or fisheries in which there may be more licences than there are fish, or there are not enough fish to provide for them. There might be, but you have that on the east coast as well. The argument that we have to have open ownership because of the overcapacity is a false argument. The same problem has existed in Atlantic fisheries, in groundfish and so on, and has been resolved.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Williams.
Your time is up.
It's Mr. Arnold, for three minutes or less, please.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to be sharing my time with Mr. Calkins.
It's short, so I'm going to ask for a very short answer.
Mr. Williams, you referred to a report that DFO is going to be preparing. Can we clarify with the clerk if that report has been finished and if it has been provided to the committee? I didn't get the exact quote, but I believe you stated that the west coast fishery is too fragile for drastic change. Who said that?
Research Director, Canadian Council of Professional Fish Harvesters
I listened to the testimony from Canfisco and the BC Seafood Alliance. Their commentary was that their fishery is very complex in terms of the nature of salmon stocks, the nature of certain species mix and so on.
Conservative
Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
Cynthia, BOAT is an acronym for “bring out another thousand”. If you have a boat, get rid of it now.
Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC
Mr. Williams, do you have a legal opinion?
I'm going to ask several questions, and you guys can answer at your own convenience. If the government actually implemented a seven-year transition period with some type of mandatory quota sale, do you have a legal opinion on what the department would be facing from the ownership?
For anybody who wants to answer this question, we've heard about foreign ownership of some of the quota and licences. Are there any other ways that you know of that foreign interference or foreign money is coming in to influence fisheries policy on the west coast?
Research Director, Canadian Council of Professional Fish Harvesters
The minister has just won a series of legal challenges on the minister's ability to allocate licences, reallocate licences or make those changes. So far, the legal precedents are all—
Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC
It's fine.
Does anybody want to comment on foreign ownership or foreign interference in the governance of fisheries on the west coast?
As an Individual
It's happening.
Last year, for the known purchases of licences, there was $60 million through the boat brokers here, and half of that was from foreign ownership or from foreign purchasers.