Evidence of meeting #139 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stock.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think the AFF, which been mentioned, has been a real source for industry to come in this year, and it has enjoyed a good uptake.
With respect to diversification of the lobster industry in particular, I'm not sure, off the top of my head, that there's a particular program for it, given that the stock has been in good shape and the harvest has been good. I think the AFF is probably the flagship piece for innovation around fisheries.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
How are you balancing the high demand for snow crab in the Asian market with conservation measures to protect the stock?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Resource Management Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think the high demand is something that harvesters enjoy, and it's a nice problem to have.
Basically, the controls are at the level of the allocation of quotas, which plays out within supply and demand globally, with fixed quotas or fixed deliveries. I think we've seen good prices for lobster and snow crab, internationally. I think it plays out naturally—with increasing demand come higher year-by-year prices. As I said, that's not a bad problem to have.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Johns.
Now we'll go back to the government side. Mr. Morrissey, you have seven minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Hardy, my first question is for you. It's a follow-up on an answer you gave. You indicated that large female lobsters are more productive than smaller lobsters for egg count and generating stock. Would you agree that it would be counterproductive to backtrack on measures where the industry has determined they would leave more large females in the water? That would be supportive of growing the industry, would it not?
4:45 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. My sense, my interpretation, is that the changes in carapace size lead to larger lobsters that are able to produce within the gulf region, P.E.I. in particular. Raising the minimum legal size allows for those lobsters to reproduce.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Beyond that, there was a step made of leaving really large female lobsters in the water. Are they still productive at that stage?
4:45 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. Just off the top of my head, I think a canner-size lobster can produce in the order of 8,000 eggs, whereas a jumbo-size female can produce in the order of 40,000 eggs.
4:45 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They're still productive. They can continue to produce. After that period, when they're out of the fishery and they're too big to be caught in a trap, they can continue to produce for decades.
4:45 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, I would encourage that.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Turning to my colleague's question on migration patterns in general, when the larvae settle on the bottom and they become mature lobsters, what science do you have to show the mobility of those lobsters? Often fishermen will argue. For instance, they will leave area 25 and decide to go on a journey and end up maybe in 24, 23 or 22. What evidence do you have on the pattern of a lobster when it matures on the bottom?
4:45 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm just going by memory. There isn't a large migratory movement of lobster that we're aware of. There's a seasonal migration into deeper waters and then into shallower waters. There have been some tagging studies using different types of tags to try to assess how far the lobsters move. It has been very similar for crab; there have been different types of tagging studies to assess broader movement. I believe we're into the tens of kilometres and not hundreds of kilometres.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
That's what I understand.
Can you submit to the committee any information or empirical data that you have on that? For instance, if a lobster was on the bottom of 26B off Cape Breton, it's not going to suddenly move on a journey to 24 in the Gulf of St. Lawrence?
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's right.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I've seen no evidence that would support that statement, to expect that the lobster will move long distances like that.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
So, in an area where it has a different carapace size, there's no science to back up the theory that those lobsters move into another area where they can be fished.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, not that I'm aware of. I'm aware of some local movement and moving around, but not any broad patterns like that.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Could you provide to the committee what you define as local movement?
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can dig up the articles that refer to that.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Fisheries and Ecosystem Sciences Division, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Much of this is in published science.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
That's what I assumed you would have. I agree with the science, the value of the large female lobster in protecting this valuable resource on the east coast and growing it. There was a move by some fishermen in the area to undo the measure of returning the large females to the water, which I totally oppose. The evidence you're giving supports leaving them there.
I'd like anything that you, Mr. Hardy, or the department would have on normal lobster movement, because it's not like a pelagic species that swims all over the place. My understanding is that, when the juvenile settles to the bottom, it will stay within a particular area. Anything you would have on that would be appreciated.
I don't know if you could speak to this, but there is an item that concerns me. If the carapace is too large, what impact might that have on our processing industry, which supports a lot of coastal communities, and what would be the impact of sending a similar product into a market, moving a very large lobster into a live market? The market in Nova Scotia is primarily a live market. If all the gulf region or Atlantic Canada moved into that particular category, I suspect it would have an impact on the market.
If the department has any information on that issue, I would like you to submit it to the committee, or you may speak on it. We send a lot of lobster to the marketplace. I do agree with raising the carapace size to grow the stock. In fact, all the data will prove that it is the way to go, but my issue would be with the glass ceiling that we may hit that would disrupt the equilibrium between the processing side and the live side.
Who can speak to that?