Evidence of meeting #140 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobsters.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
I've been hearing 40%. As much as 40% is being shipped overseas.
I guess the guys out in Nova Scotia would know a bit more, because our lobsters actually travel to Nova Scotia and are shipped out from up there. But if that were to happen, I think we'd see a big reduction in the price. It would be bad.
Conservative
President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I'll make one comment on it.
Obviously we don't want to lose anything in the marketplace. China could be a concern. I'm not saying it's a concern now, but it could be.
It's a relatively new market compared with some of the older markets, the traditional markets. We do have people who are involved in processing who don't send any product to China at all. The live shippers have been doing well down there. I agree with Mr. Fitzpatrick that it's something that we don't want to see happen. We'll have to monitor that situation.
I believe that the product is scarce enough that that's not going to happen, and that's what we're going to hope for.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Given the fact that I'm hearing that the geographic range and the population changes for lobster and crab in Atlantic Canada might be beneficial in the short term or the long term, might require some adjustments in fishing areas or on where larger boats are used, and so on, has anybody actually done an analysis or heard of an analysis of what the implication of a carbon tax would be, notwithstanding the fact that I believe fuel for the fishing fleet is exempt? For all the other items that are delivered, items purchased by a fishing boat, traps and pots; any of the harvest that's shipped away from the dock; the cost of keeping the lobster in a pound, for example, in chilled water, has anybody done a cost analysis on what the actual impact would be for the fishermen and whether there is actually going to be a price reduction to cover those costs?
President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
It's a great question, but to my knowledge, there's been no cost analysis done on P.E.I. yet.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
In case I don't get a chance, I want to thank all the witnesses for coming today.
That's my 10 seconds.
NDP
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to all our guests, and to you, Alfred, in particular, being from my riding in Newfoundland and Labrador.
I want to focus a little on snow crab.
Of course you're well aware of the challenges we face this year with some significant proposed cuts by DFO for the TAC for snow crab. It has created a lot of concern and alarm among the harvesters in the fishing community in most of the province. But in 3Ps, where you fish, you saw a significant increase in quota.
I'd like you to tell this committee why you think that happened and whether you are comfortable with that level of increase.
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
With crab in 3Ps, it all goes back to 2016. We were at a level where I couldn't feasibly fish snow crab. I had to tie my enterprise to the wharf, and I went out west because there just wasn't enough there to make a living. I couldn't do it. In 2017 it seemed like there were indications of crab coming back. We saw a lot of soft-shell. We took our cuts in 3Ps. We took our cuts, 50%, 40%. In our supplementary fleet, we went from 104,000 pounds down to 17,500 pounds based on cuts recommended by DFO. We could see it. We started to build it back up and last year it was getting better, and this year we ended up with a 50% increase, which was good and much needed.
I'm still cautious. We had a lot of effort and 3Ps is not a big area. I have a “further down the road” outlook. I tend to look to the future—perhaps it's my age—and I prefer to be cautious instead of making big, big jumps.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
You went through some tough times, and there's some concern around the rate at which the fishery has been opened—it's been cautious. During that period, and even today, are you and other harvesters providing advice to DFO on stock management, and are they listening?
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
There seems to have been a big shift the last few years with the new crop of DFO scientists, we'll call them, and managers. It seemed like there for a while we had a really good relationship with the senior scientists at DFO, and they listened to us, because I think they respected what we saw. I think they trusted us to come in and tell them the truth, for the most part, as much as anybody does. It seems like now with the new scientists doing the job—and I don't mean to condemn anybody—it's their way or the highway. They'll listen, but they're really not listening. It doesn't seem like our opinion carries much weight.
I was told a couple of years ago that it would be 13 years before another snow crab would ever be caught in 3Ps. They told us we were done. They told us the piggy bank was dry and we had nothing left. This year they gave a 50% increase. We told them at the time we knew it was getting bad, but we didn't think it was gone for 13 years. There were people who sold enterprises based on that recommendation—they sold out.
Liberal
Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL
Alfred, knowing what you know now, and based on your experiences for the past number of years, decades, or whatever, what's your opinion on the proposed precautionary approach, PA, to the future fishery? Do you think harvesters can make a good contribution to setting limits and reference points and so on?
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Yes, about the most important part of it now going forward is getting those reference points right. If this is going to work, the PA, I'll call it, we have to work together. The PA is trying to build the piggy bank back up. That's the analogy I use. We're trying to build a savings account for rough times.
I can see where the PA will be beneficial if it's done right, but we can't set the bar too high, because some areas in Newfoundland will never ever get to that critical zone. There are levels of crab where the crabs are at, and that's all it can sustain. If we get the levels right and work together, which hasn't been happening the last couple of years, we can do this right and hopefully it will be beneficial.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I think I'll carry on a little bit with Mr. Rogers' questioning with Mr. Fitzpatrick. You were talking about the precautionary principle. I've seen this in wildlife management in my province where it becomes too precautionary. Rather than looking at the actual science and the numbers, they rely on regional managers or someone's opinion.
If you'd like, I'll give you some of my time to elaborate further.
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
There seems to be a big disconnect between science and managers in DFO. We'll go into a meeting with DFO. The science will be there, but it seems what science recommends and what we agree to are not always followed, even though it makes sense for the stock and for the harvesters.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
—even though what the fishermen are seeing and recommending makes sense.
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Yes. I'm not saying we're 100% right all the time, but when you can get fishermen and science to agree on something, and it doesn't get followed, it makes you wonder what the point was of having the meetings in the first place.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Does anybody else want to chime in with thoughts on this issue of the precautionary principle overriding, when the science doesn't necessarily support it?
President, Coldwater Lobster Association
I think Mr. Fitzpatrick has it spot-on. The big thing is that science and industry have to be pushing this, and the precautionary approach has to take the lead from industry and science. Industry is the eyes on the water [Technical difficulty—Editor].
