Evidence of meeting #143 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mussels.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Could you talk a little about how that was calculated and maybe explain to the committee about some of the impacts of that?
5:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Central Kootenay Invasive Species Society
I did not do the study, so I can't speak at this moment to how that was calculated, but I can certainly speak to some of the impacts and where those costs come from. A few of the other witnesses have mentioned the impacts to hydro power. One of the impacts of zebra and quagga mussels is called biofouling, where they basically cover hard surfaces within the water body that they're infesting. They seem to really gravitate towards nice pipes and hydro power-type facilities.
The cost associated with the management of that is basically trying to keep your facility cleared enough to function while these veligers and quagga mussels are trying to establish on a continuous basis. There are large costs there. I'm certain that the Ontario hydro people could speak to that in more detail.
For agricultural irrigation, it comes from having your piping systems compromised. The maintenance involved with having to clear out your whole piping system on an annual basis adds up extremely quickly, especially when you have expensive agriculture systems in place.
For municipal water supplies, it's the same across the board for all of these sorts of economic human costs. You know you're going to get zebra and quagga mussels on your municipal water intake and treatment systems, and the cost for the municipalities to maintain those systems is going to increase exponentially once we get infestations.
The cost for recreational boating is mainly tourism dollars. Once the lake becomes infested, it's certainly pretty well known that it becomes less of a target destination for tourism. People tend to not come to those lakes as much. Tourism is certainly a large segment of the economy in our region, and for good reason. These lakes are gorgeous.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you. That was great.
How did your organization come to the conclusion that this is the number one threat in the province?
5:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Central Kootenay Invasive Species Society
It was primarily because of the combination of ecological and economic costs that are so well documented from the eastern regions of North America where the infestation has been going on for decades. It's very well known what those impacts are. It's also well known that infestation is moving in our direction quite steadily. It's not fast, but it's happening. The risk is high and the actual costs are also known to be extremely high. The combination of those factors just makes it a top priority for us.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Great, thank you.
Speaking of big disasters, Ms. Noel, you mentioned big disasters in your presentation and the implications to ecosystems and industries—like the fishery, I'm assuming. Could you give us an example of one big disaster that illustrates what you're talking about? Ms. Bates outlined how $43 million and just one aquatic invasive species is causing a problem in one province of the country.
Do you want to expand on how a big disaster in this country could be prevented, or can you illuminate what the costs and impacts are to the ecosystem and industry?
5:50 p.m.
Volunteer Member, New Brunswick Invasive Species Council
The evidence is certainly there and there's a reason there has been a lot of effort and attention placed on Ontario and on the Great Lakes. It's because there have been numerous disasters.
The point I was trying to make there is that when something happens, we need to respond. We need to react and we need to address it. That's good and that's important to do, but it's harder for people in general. It's always harder to be proactive. Despite the fact that we've seen this happen over and over again and we have a lot of science on invasive species—we know how they work and we know how invasions happen—it still seems to be not possible to get ahead of it and to put as much focus as there needs to be on the prevention, on the education, and really importantly, on the rapid response when we do see something. We know. It's been proven time and time again.
There's no question that you try first to prevent it. When something comes in, as soon as you see it identified you have to immediately respond to that threat and try your best to eradicate it. The only time you have a chance of eradicating an invasive species is when it's first been discovered, yet over and over again we see that does not happen.
It's a huge issue. It's a big country. I understand all of those things, but my hope is that we can do a little better on that front and be more prepared in all parts of the country.
5:55 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
What would your number one recommendation be to this committee that the government do to combat AIS?
5:55 p.m.
Volunteer Member, New Brunswick Invasive Species Council
I think my number one, because it's probably the lowest hanging fruit, is to fund groups more equitably across the country to do education and outreach. As I mentioned, there are the funding sources that we try to get in New Brunswick, which we have not been successful at getting because they're not for invasive species, so we literally cannot even get out there and do basic education because we don't have the funding to do that. That would definitely be the lowest cost. Then my second-biggest thing would be plans for rapid response.
5:55 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
In terms of number one, do you have an amount in mind? Has there been any study or work done on what is needed in terms of a budget or dollars the government would have to put to this problem, even if it were to tackle it maybe not on the order of magnitude you're talking about but at least as a positive step?
5:55 p.m.
Volunteer Member, New Brunswick Invasive Species Council
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure I'm going to try to guess a number, but that program that was introduced in the late-2000s, the invasive alien species partnership program, was a tremendous program. It only lasted five years but it got work going. It got groups like ours going and established a baseline of people who were willing to do the education, do the on-the-ground outreach. Whatever the funding was of that program, if we could re-establish something at that level even, that would be enough to get local groups engaged in doing the outreach. Then they will probably leverage that money as well through provincial funding sources and other private funders, as NGOs are very adept at doing.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.
Now to Mr. Fraser for seven minutes or less.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being with us.
I'd like to ask a question to Mr. Stanley and Mr. Powell.
In your presentation you gave us some recommendations and I thank you for that. One of them was for there to be a better alignment between the federal and provincial regulatory schemes dealing with AIS. I'm wondering if you can explain why that's an issue right now.
5:55 p.m.
Senior Environmental Specialist, Ontario Power Generation, Canadian Electricity Association
It was a major concern with the use of “deleterious substances”, in DFO language. Chlorine is toxic to the aquatic environment, so that's a deleterious substance. OPG had been treating for zebra mussels into the nineties. We had provincial permits to use chlorine to maintain our stations, as did municipal water intakes and other industrial users. There was a lack of alignment between the federal government and the province about the use of a biocide to control these species. In 2016, we got sign-off from DFO that it would be allowed. We want to make sure that isn't lost. We don't want to use chlorine in the environment—
5:55 p.m.
Senior Environmental Specialist, Ontario Power Generation, Canadian Electricity Association
—but there are some cases where you have to. Then when we discharge it to the natural environment, it's at a very low level but it's a chronic impact.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Is there one province that has a better regulatory scheme to deal with these sorts of things than maybe the others?
5:55 p.m.
Senior Environmental Specialist, Ontario Power Generation, Canadian Electricity Association
That I can't answer.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Okay.
Earlier in our meeting today in the first panel—because you talked about alternate control methods—somebody had brought up potash as a possible way to deal with zebra mussels. Maybe there was some research on that. Do you have any comment on the utility of potash?
5:55 p.m.
Senior Environmental Specialist, Ontario Power Generation, Canadian Electricity Association
I know Manitoba Hydro is using it now or is exploring it. I don't know how efficient it is. OPG has used a dead bacteria called Zequanox that's only toxic to dreissenid mussels. They eat it and then die. That's one good way to do it. We also use UV systems as well in our piping, but that's a broad-scale biocide. That kills everything that goes through it.
6 p.m.
Senior Environmental Specialist, Ontario Power Generation, Canadian Electricity Association
Yes, like in your rural water supplies.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
All right, thanks for that.
Ms. Noel, I want to ask you a follow-up question to your presentation where you talked about the importance of a national database in order for people to have an understanding of what invasive species there may be right across the country, and when one is spotted then it is brought to the attention of all the organizations, all the governments and the like.
Can you just expand a bit more about how that database would work and whether there is such a database in existence maybe in some other country that we could look at as a model?
6 p.m.
Volunteer Member, New Brunswick Invasive Species Council
I can tell you what I would like to see and what a lot of other folks who are in the invasive species councils across the country would like to see, and that is one database for all invasive aquatic and terrestrial species—one that is accessible, in that private citizens and groups who are working on this issue can find data on it and access it and look at it. Also, it would be made such that people can report directly into it, so that citizens can be on the ground and we can make use of an educated citizenry, once we get them educated, being the many eyes out there looking for these things.
As for available examples, there is a variety of systems being used across Canada currently. This use has been undertaken province by province. In Atlantic Canada I'm not aware of any individual database that's being maintained on invasive species. That's why, from my point of view on this side of the country, it would be great to see a national system that everyone would be using.
There are some programs publicly available—one by naturalists, for instance—that are very easy for the public to use. It's actually a maintained system that people could report into and government could put data into and also pull data from for public reporting. It could be a combination of government databases as well as a public reporting system type of database.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you very much for that.
Mr. Hambrook, thanks for being here. I note you talked about the lack of enforcement, or the difficulty when there is more focus on regulation and the regulator than on follow-up enforcement when somebody is not following the rules.
What in your view would be a recommendation this committee could make in order to see the rules better enforced?
6 p.m.
President, Miramichi Salmon Association Inc.
Many illegal introductions are not done intentionally. We just heard from Mr. Arnold that a family may take some perch home or whatever and release them, and then all of a sudden we have a problem.
There are, however, people who are doing it deliberately and doing it with impunity. There have to be some consequences for changing a whole ecosystem. I think we have to have fines increased. There has to be a discretion, however, and that's why we employ judges: to exercise that judgment call. Right now people are doing it blatantly.