Fisheries Committee on May 13th, 2019

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

We are working very closely with the province of B.C. on issues relating to interior salmon and steelhead. Those are both critical issues that need to be addressed. The province is very much engaged, because land management and agricultural use are critical pieces of all that.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You're looking for funding for the B.C. salmon restoration funds, which obviously I've been calling for. We've been calling for that money to get out the door. Will some of that money go to hatcheries as well? Most hatcheries haven't seen an increase in over 30 years, and we didn't see it in the coastal restoration funds. We haven't seen it so far.

Can the minister speak to that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Hatcheries are not the primary focus of the work on the salmon restoration and innovation fund. As you will have seen from the terms of reference, it's fairly broad, but the focus is very much on restoration.

We are certainly open to conversations around hatcheries. We will be having those at tables focused on things like the Fraser River chinook. The issue around hatcheries is a controversial one. There are certain areas in which hatcheries have a role to play, but you have to be very careful from a scientific perspective as to the balance between wild and hatchery-produced fish in areas where the wild stocks remain healthy.

That is less of a concern in areas where you have close to extirpated the wild stocks, but there is a scientific issue we need to work through. We are going to be doing that with first nations, commercial fishers, recreation fishers and environmental organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thanks, Mr. Johns. Your time is up.

We'll now go to the government side.

Mr. Finnigan, you have seven minutes or less, please.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, Mr. Hardie.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Thank you also for dropping into my riding last fall. It was very welcomed by all the recreational and indigenous communities that we had a chance to visit.

Of course, on the mighty Miramichi, the Atlantic salmon is king. With all the diminishing counts that we see every year, what is your department doing to ensure that the species remains in our water as a source of food and income for generations to come and for our first nations communities? Also, I know that we're moving towards traditional knowledge a little bit, in partnership with first nations, which I'm very happy to see.

Maybe I could have your comments on what we're doing to protect this species.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The issues affecting both Atlantic and Pacific salmon are not simple. They are complex, and they require a lot of work and thought, not the least of which are the impacts of climate change. Climate change for a species that is typically a cold water species becomes increasingly problematic in rivers and estuaries that become increasingly warm at times of the year when salmon spawning is often taking place.

We are very much committed to working collaboratively with all of the partner organizations to conserve and protect Atlantic salmon. That includes the Atlantic Salmon Federation and a range of other organizations, including many of the organizations that we met with when I was in your riding. Through the Atlantic Salmon Research Joint Venture forum, DFO experts are working with leading researchers from conservation groups, academia and other governments under a more unified Canadian Atlantic salmon research agenda, so we're doing a lot of work with respect to research. This past year, the Atlantic Salmon Research Joint Venture hosted a signature event in Quebec City that was really focused on delineating paths forward for some of the issues facing Atlantic salmon. Some of the issues are obviously international, so we are working with NASCO to find ways to reduce Greenland's annual catch, which has been a big issue. We are going to continue to work on that.

Of course, we need to continue to focus on projects that relate to things like habitat restoration. While it wasn't in your riding, I was in Nova Scotia last week to announce two coastal restoration fund projects—one on the St. Marys River and one on the West River—that are focused primarily on salmon restoration.

It's a comprehensive approach. It's absolutely a priority for this government. We recognize how important Atlantic salmon are to coastal communities and to indigenous communities all across Atlantic Canada.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I'll share my time with Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Finnigan.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

You had no end of tough calls to make, and certainly one of them had to do with the closures on chinook salmon out on the west coast. I got a message from a family who invested quite heavily in a boat last year, and they've seen their fishing window shortened by about six weeks this year because of the closures. They are wondering if there's a chance to review the balance, I guess, of the pain or the impact between the commercial fishers and the commercial recreational sector, mainly the lodges and guides, etc., to make sure that.... Again, there will be sacrifices, but they need to be equitable. Can you comment on that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I mentioned in talking about Atlantic salmon, clearly the issues involved here are complex, and we need a comprehensive approach. With respect to Fraser River chinook, where 12 of 13 are listed or are in the process of being listed as being threatened, we are in the process of bringing forward Bill C-68 to strengthen protections that were lost under the previous government. We committed $142 million to habitat restoration, which is something the recreational fishers talk about a lot: the need for governments to actually spend on restoring habitat that's been destroyed. We announced in the fall $107 million for investments in the stock provisions part of the Fisheries Act to help us to do more stock assessments and those kinds of things to better manage the fisheries. We have convened, with the University of British Columbia, a symposium on predation by seals and sea lions, which is another topic of conversation. We have indicated to the recreational fishers that we are open to conversations around hatcheries and marked fisheries in a multi-stakeholder forum where we can surface some of the issues and have those conversations.

We also need to ensure that a sufficient number of these fish are getting back to the spawning grounds, that they will continue to survive and, ultimately, that they will continue to recover. The restrictions that were put into place a few weeks ago are to do exactly that. Those restrictions are as stringent for the commercial fishery as they are for the recreational fishery, and in some respects, you could argue that they are even more stringent for the commercial fishery. We have endeavoured to ensure that we only have non-retention limits in place while the Fraser River stocks are in the relevant area, and those are opened again as soon as those stocks are gone. Before those stocks have left, it's not a closure of the fishery; it's simply non-retention. You can catch and release, but you must release.

It is part of a comprehensive plan to ensure that we are not knowingly putting these Fraser River chinook on a path to extinction. That would not be something that's wise, and I wouldn't be doing my job appropriately if I allowed that to happen.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The committee dropped a report—our 21st—in Parliament last week on the whole issue of sharing risks and rewards in the west coast fishery, which seemed to have drifted badly out of balance. I know that it's early days and you have a lot on your plate, but I'm wondering if you've had any first-blush reactions to that report.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

First of all, I want to thank the committee for the work. It's certainly very interesting and I think has very thoughtful recommendations with respect to a range of issues on the west coast that are quite different from those on the east coast.

I have met with many stakeholders who have wanted to talk about these issues. Certainly we have listened, and we are thinking within the department on some of these issues, but what I have told them is that we're not going to launch a major project on this while the committee itself is doing the study. We are going to wait for the committee's report. We are going to consider the committee's report. We will obviously respond to the committee's report, and we will do so in a thoughtful way.

Certainly, there are a lot of issues that have been raised. As even people like Melanie Sonnenberg—who I'm sure you have met with many times—will tell you, it's very difficult to unscramble the omelette. Certainly, the issues around economic benefits and some of the other broader issues that were raised in the report are some things that we're going to think very seriously about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We're back to the Conservative side now.

Mr. Arnold, five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and all of the officials, for being here.

We received a briefing on some of the numbers in the estimates. One that really piqued my interest was the $10.2 million for the disposal of small craft harbours, which is an increase from $500,000 previously. That's a very significant increase. Is it the intention of the department to divest itself of a number of small craft harbours? If so, how many, and where would they be?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That is certainly public information, yes, and on small craft harbours, it's really focused on harbours where there are commercial fisheries, in support of commercial fisheries. There was a decision a number of years ago that there were some small craft harbours that would be divested, typically to the community-based organizations that wish to accept them. There are case-by-case examples.

In terms of the numbers and why the number has gone up, maybe I can ask Jen.

[Jen O'Donoughue]

The number reflects the plans in 2019-20, but Mark probably has more detail in terms of the actual—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Could you get the report to the committee before the end of the week, please, rather than chew up a whole bunch of time here now? Thank you.

Minister, I want to question you a bit on the aquatic invasive species and that program. The commissioner's report that came out a few weeks back identified basically very significant problems with the aquatic invasive species program. I believe it's under the fisheries protection program. In her report, she referred to the fisheries minister's mandate letter. She stated that there were funding increases for the seven new fisheries officers to be deployed across the Arctic region and Quebec region by the 2021 fiscal year. The report said:

This aligns with the priority in the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard's mandate letter to increase...protection of freshwater resources in the Great Lakes, St. Lawrence River, and Lake Winnipeg basins. However, as funding was significantly less than Fisheries and Oceans Canada's identified needs, the Department will make risk-based decisions regarding the resources allocated to protect fish and fish habitat from aquatic invasive species.

Minister, over the past couple of years we've seen cases of boats that are infested with zebra and quagga mussels entering the provinces. Obviously, the system is failing. The commissioner's report shows how and why the system is failing. What is being done within the department to correct those failures?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Certainly, the issue of aquatic invasive species is an important one, and it is an increasingly important one as we move forward in the era when climate change is changing the nature of the ability of these species both to come here and to survive and thrive. That is certainly why addressing climate change in a thoughtful and substantive way is a very important thing to do, but with respect to—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Minister—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—aquatic invasive species, there were a couple of things with respect to the commissioner's report.

The first is that we accept her recommendations and certainly will be working to meet many of the comments she made, but it is also important to note that both the scope and the timing of her report exclude a number of things that have been done. Her report, because hers is a federal agency, also does not focus on the fact that aquatic invasive species is a shared federal-provincial jurisdictional issue, where you need to work with the provinces.

In budget 2017, we allocated $43.8 million over five years. It was a significant increase in funding—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Over 80% of that went to species in the Great Lakes, leaving less than 20% spread across the rest of the country.

Are the funds going to be used equitably across the country?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's a significant increase in funding relative to what had been funded under the previous government. We recognize that more will need to be done. Part of that needs to be done through a federal-provincial framework and we have been working with all of the fisheries ministers across the country to develop that. We intend to ensure that this is an issue that gets attention going forward. We said that in the response to the commissioner.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Is the funding sufficient?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I said to you, we accept the recommendations of the commissioner and we are working to ensure that we are addressing all of them.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'll move on to another subject here about the restrictions on top of restrictions that seem to be coming along here.

DFO's web page for the salmonid enhancement program contains information about the state of the Pacific salmon runs in the States, saying that “many individual runs are still threatened by too many fishermen and too little habitat.” Meanwhile, a news story on May 10 quoted Liberal MP Pamela Goldsmith-Jones as stating that anglers “are as interested in conservation as anyone, but aren't accepting that they create a risk to [salmon]...mortality.”

Do you agree with your department's web page and your Liberal colleague that it is the anglers who are to blame for the state of Pacific salmon stocks?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Give a very short answer, please.