Evidence of meeting #19 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
You mentioned 28 FTEs in the Pacific region. We also, of course, have had the Cohen commission deal with issues of the Fraser River sockeye salmon in my neck of the woods. Can you tell me what those 28 FTEs will be focused on? Will any of them be directed by the recommendations of the Cohen commission, or can you directly relate them to any of the recommendations that were made by Justice Cohen?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
I'll start by saying that in addition to the work we're already doing at DFO to advance some of the Cohen commission recommendations as they relate to the science elements, absolutely the work of some of these FTEs will contribute to advancing the Cohen recommendations. This is particularly in the area of fisheries monitoring, in the area of understanding ecosystem stressors, in the area of wild salmon and aquaculture salmon interactions, and also in diagnostic testing capabilities.
As it's early days, I'm not able to parse out at this point the proportion of what each of those 28 FTEs will be doing as it relates to those specific recommendations.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Parsons, can you advise on whether an aquaculture operation has ever been authorized by DFO and then been set up on the west coast where the science has not supported that placement? Has a minister ever overridden the scientific advice he received in regard to siting of aquaculture operations, or has the science always been followed in terms of siting decisions, licensing, and that sort of thing?
Dr. Jay Parsons Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you.
I'm certainly not aware of any particular instance of that occurring.
As part of the decision-making, a number of pieces of information are considered by management and the minister in making siting decisions for giving aquaculture leases. I should also note, of course, that the provincial government does have a role in leasing, whereas the department has the responsibility for licensing aquaculture proponents.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC
Do you feel that your ability to independently evaluate, on a scientific basis, aquaculture operations specifically in British Columbia has ever been affected by the fact that DFO is both the enforcer of the Fisheries Act, essentially, and the promoter of farmed salmon? Has that dual role ever compromised, as far as you're aware, DFO's ability to independently evaluate the scientific risks, or lack thereof, for aquaculture in British Columbia?
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm not quite sure I would characterize the department's role as a promoter of aquaculture. Certainly they have a regulatory role, and in some respects an enabling role, but maybe that's getting into semantics.
Certainly within the department there is quite a clear distinction between management's role and science's role. We're here today from the science sector. It's part of our mandate and our roles and responsibilities to undertake scientific studies and to investigate a number of questions related to aquatic resource management. As well, we have quite a formal peer review system within DFO that we use to provide science advice to management. That advice is published. It's put on the website. The research documents and the research information supporting them are published and put on the website as well.
In that regard, I would suggest that we have a fairly independent, robust, and transparent system in terms of the type of science advice we provide in all the domains we're involved with.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC
I want to ask specifically about HSMI and PRV. Is there current ongoing science on that at DFO? Some people have made the case that there's a causal link. Others have said “not so fast”, that the science doesn't support that. Can you give us DFO's view on those two, on HSMI as it relates to PRV, and on what work needs to be done there to provide assurance to Canadians?
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, certainly. You're in part probably referring to the recent news release from the department noting some of the ongoing work we have in terms of the potential finding of HSMI in B.C.
There have been several studies under way for a number of years that are related to both PRV and HSMI. The news release spoke in particular to one of the fairly large collaborative studies we have within the department, the strategic salmon health initiative, which is a jointly funded initiative with Genome BC, the Pacific Salmon Foundation, and DFO, whereby we released some preliminary findings looking at the potential occurrence of HSMI in B.C.
You've also questioned the state of knowledge around the cause of HSMI. We really don't know the cause of HSMI. Work has been done in Norway and a few other countries, and there is some work being done here in Canada. None of this work has been able to find a causal link, to find what causes HSMI, including the work we have under way in B.C.
A number of studies have pointed to an association between HSMI and PRV, but that does not necessarily mean that it's the causal link. The scientific story is more complex than that, and some of the work that's under way, both within the department and elsewhere, is further trying to define that link.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck
Thank you. That's seven minutes.
Go ahead, Mr. Donnelly, for seven minutes.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all our witnesses for being here today.
Ms. McPherson, if you would, please thank your department of scientists, researchers, and technicians just to let them know that we appreciate the good work they do for the country and the department.
I'll start with how, during the last Parliament, DFO closed the habitat protection field offices. With this new announcement, will any of those offices that were shut down or moved be reopened with these new resources or any other budgetary resources.
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The $197.1 million over five years is really largely targeted to ocean science and monitoring. Only a small part of it—as I said, $1.5 million per year—is directed to freshwater science. Of that $1.5 million, a contribution will be made to the Experimental Lakes Area, so the remaining freshwater resources for DFO science obviously will be less than that. At this juncture, we don't expect that we'll be reopening any offices to use as resources in places where we don't currently have staff.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
In terms of the state of the oceans, you talked about more science for determining what that state is. What do you see as the biggest threats? For instance, we have climate change, acidification, and issues on food in terms of the fishery.
Second, will you be working with universities such as the University of Victoria, for instance, or Dalhousie, and some of the Ocean Networks Canada collaborators and other collaborators?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for the question.
When the science sector in DFO was challenged to think about the things that are most in need of DFO science investment, we looked at the mandate letter of our minister and at the priorities of the management sectors of our organization that inform sustainable fisheries management and the like.
We also looked at the emerging things that science needs to be on top of and that we need to look at in the future in order to be ready when questions come up. You can't launch a research program that takes five years to answer a question that someone wants an answer to now. You need to be ready with that answer.
You've hit on a couple of things already, with ocean acidification and climate change, but as I mentioned, there's the impact of noise pollution. That's not something that we've typically spent a lot of effort on.
On marine mammals, we haven't done nearly enough work on the population levels and what the threats are for those species.
I'll also talk briefly about microplastics. Internationally, that's a huge issue in terms of the impacts on aquatic species of those tiny bits of plastic that are degrading.
These are all things that we identified as part of that exercise to set priorities.
Coming to your question about academic partners, we absolutely will be working with universities. I'm just thinking about Dalhousie and the team and how we've been working with them on our ocean acidification program over the past five years.
This new money isn't going to change what we do. It's going to change how we do it.
One of the things we're really going to focus on is partnerships. A large swath of the $40 million or so per year will be money that we'll use in working with university academics, such as ONC, as you've mentioned, but we'll also work with non-traditional partners, such as other levels of government, ENGOs, and whoever is the best researcher in the field that we need to engage with.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Parsons, according to some, the Government of Canada is ignoring published scientific evidence that infectious salmon anemia virus, or ISAV, an internationally reportable fish virus, is present in B.C. farmed salmon. Do you have any comment on that?
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There certainly has been one recent study that has been published, but—
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right. That has really been the only recent research publication on that virus.
From a regulatory perspective, in terms of the presence of potential diseases in our water, it's the Canadian Food Inspection Agency that has the responsibility for investigating the presence of diseases and for declaring whether the diseases are present in a certain area or not.
The CFIA certainly has had a fairly extensive program under way over the last number of years, a surveillance program through which they've taken a number of samples and specifically looked for that disease, as well as a number of other diseases, and they have not been able to confirm the presence of that disease on the west coast.
In addition, if there's ever any reported suspicion or presence of a reportable disease, it would be the responsibility of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to confirm the presence of such a disease. To date, they've not been able to confirm the presence of ISAV on the west coast of B.C.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Will they be putting in any new resources or receiving resources under this funding?
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Under the new funding, the CFIA does not receive any new money, but within DFO.... As I mentioned, the CFIA has the regulatory responsibility for regulating aquatic animal diseases. DFO has the responsibility for undertaking research, as well as providing diagnostic testing in support of CFIA's mandate, and we did get some new resources to be able to increase our capacity to provide that diagnostic service to CFIA with this new money.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Can you talk about the work Dr. Kristi Miller is doing in relation to salmon aquaculture and wild salmon?
Director, Aquaculture, Biotechnology and Aquatic Animal Health Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sure. I didn't mention her by name, but on the question from Mr. Strahl and the strategic salmon health initiative project I was referring to, Dr. Miller-Saunders is the departmental lead on that particular project.
As I mentioned, it's a fairly large collaborative project between DFO and Genome BC and the Pacific Salmon Foundation. That project is investigating the potential presence of a number of microbes that may occur on the west coast, in both farmed and wild fish, and it's also partly designed to be looking, if some of those microbes are present and if some of those are potential disease-causing microbes, at what the interactions might be among wild and cultured fish.
That's a fairly large study that has been under way for a number of years. It's in part 2b of the project right now, and I believe it's intended that there be three or four parts to that project.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck
That's seven minutes.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Jordan, you have seven minutes.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, panellists.
Dr. McPherson, I guess my first question would be to you.
We're going now to the east coast. With the 25.5 positions in the Maritimes, the nine in the gulf, and the 17 in Newfoundland and Labrador, what are some of the specific areas they will be studying?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for the question.
I'd just like to correct that to say it's 10 in the gulf. I apologize.