Fisheries Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Alberto Wareham]

There are a couple of different things to point out. They have high productivity in their stocks, whereas we do not. I think that's why the scientists want to see approximately 980,000 metric tons of spawning stock biomass. Our cod matures more slowly. In Iceland, fish are recruiting into the fishery two to three years during the spawning stock, and ours is five to six years. It's as much about the biology of the fish than it is anything.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

DFO testified last week that they're seeing a change in the tendencies of the fish, that because of the low stocks we're seeing them mature faster. Would you agree with that?

[Alberto Wareham]

In Newfoundland, we are not seeing that yet. We've been producing the stewardship fishery cod that's been landed since 2006, and we're not seeing a substantial change yet.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I really appreciate the ocean-to-plate practice. I come from British Columbia. There's a large farming area in my region, and we have similar sustainable farming practices for “pasture to plate”. If you saw me on the phone, I was Googling the right term. It is something that I can appreciate.

You mentioned something about the quality of fish in saying that we're not quite there in terms of the quality of fish. Is that because of the quality of fish or the quality of harvesting?

[Alberto Wareham]

I'm going to answer in two ways.

As I've said, one of the biggest challenges we have in Newfoundland is 500 years of history: “that is just fish and it's good enough”. That was good enough up until 1992, but it's not good enough anymore. We work with some of the FFAW harvesters. They've been harvesting fish for 30 years. They learned from their fathers and their grandfathers, etc. They don't know how to handle it as well as they think they do.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's exactly what I wanted to get to for my next question. It would appear to me that change is inevitable and that we have to change the way we do things as we move forward. There is a large component in terms of education and educating our long-standing fishing families on a more sustainable way of doing things.

My question is for the panel. How are we seeing buy-in with the recreational fishers and also with the long-standing fishing families in educating them in the new ways and better ways of doing things?

[Alberto Wareham]

I think we can say that money has a way of solving problems or encouraging change. That was one of the reasons Icewater and the FFAW worked on the quality grading system. By paying a substantial premium for grade A and a very low price for grade C, we're trying to force them—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

It's incentive based.

[Alberto Wareham]

Yes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

That's perfect. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Doherty.

Mr. Johns, please, for seven minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I also want to thank you for being here. It's great for you to share your invaluable insight. I'm from coastal British Columbia, from Vancouver Island. We're seeing a huge decline in our salmon stocks, as you know. We hope we don't go the way of the cod in 1992. We can learn and share a lot, and I appreciate what you're teaching us today.

Mr. Sullivan, you talked about the owner-operator principle. In British Columbia, with our salmon, I'll give you a comparison. One operator owns 39% of the quota of our salmon stocks.

Can you talk a bit about the owner-operator, the adjacency, and the importance of that?

[Keith Sullivan]

In Newfoundland and Labrador, the biggest part of the economy in coastal regions outside the northeast Avalon, where we are now, would be the fishery. It has been for a number of years. It's the reason why people settled all these communities.

What we've seen in recent years has been more of a shift to things like we've seen in B.C., with companies going around the policies for trust agreements, and with companies with deeper pockets, not necessarily located in those areas, being able to outbid and out-compete local harvesters, such as someone who is on the deck of the boat. That's been a hindrance to the next generation of people for getting into the industry at a fair value.

We've done a substantial amount of work. It's a popular policy. People recognize the value of it, but there have been loopholes that have been exploited, and we're working hard to close those. For the future prosperity of our coastal communities, that's something that is going to have to be stopped soon, because we're losing a future generation. If we have people that could possibly be international companies and whatnot looking and trying to secure a supply of food products.... I'll stop there just to recognize that we have a short amount of time, but it is vitally important for our future.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

One of the earlier witnesses talked about harvesting being managed right now by the federal government, as we know, and processing by the provincial government. He said that it's impossible for us to continue down this path without integrating some sort of process.

Mr. Butler, and maybe Mr. Wareham, do you want to talk about how we can improve, in terms of more of an integrated model, to be more efficient?

[Derek Butler]

I don't have particular thoughts other than to say that I would support that.

I think there's a challenge. Section 7 of the federal Fisheries Act gives absolute discretion to the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. We'd like to see a change to that in respect of moving the fishery forward. In the 21st century, we don't think any one person should have absolute discretion. It's the most powerful minister in respect of their cabinet colleagues at the table, in respect of their domain of competency or interest in the fishery. The challenge has to be all the pressure that puts on the minister. In respect of managing the fishery, the minister can't give up that authority, I don't think, without a change in the act. I think this has to be addressed before there's any talk of sharing management between the two levels, the federal and the provincial.

The other aspect of this, which is very complicated, is all the provincial aspects. We share fisheries in the Gulf, for example. Then there's the NAFO angle. There are international fisheries that compete with or overlap provincial fisheries. In area 7, for example, under shrimp, NAFO quotas were set there. They were not set by Canadians but managed by Canadians. The third wrinkle—this is just to speak to how complex this is—involves our first nations and the federal authorities around first nations as a result of I think the Donald Marshall decision.

That makes it all very complex. I think everybody would laud the principle of a requirement for more shared stewardship between the two levels of government, but it's very complex.

[Alberto Wareham]

I would add one comment to that. Whoever is going to manage it, it has to be science-based. We have to get the politics out of it. It has to be science based. That's the only way we have a future in the fishery.

Thank you.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

This leads me to the next question, Mr. Wareham. You talked about a three-year cycle in terms of management. What would you like to see? Maybe you could elaborate a little more on that.

[Alberto Wareham]

Well, I guess “go slow” is the main thing. If there have to be increases, keep them very small. Our plant is operating today at 40% to 50% of its capacity. I should be the greedy person at the table saying that I want my plant full, but I'm the seventh generation, and if I'm going to have an eighth, a ninth, and a tenth generation of our family in the business, I want it done right. I'm prepared to go slow for the long term.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

We'll go over to Mr. Finnigan, please, for seven minutes

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the panel for appearing on the processing side of this.

My first question would be for Mr. Sullivan. If we ever return to sustainable numbers to harvest, do you believe that we have presently in those fishing communities the labour force, the human resources to do this? Would you say that retooling is a must? Or are we going to have to go to offshore labour to supply it, if we ever do return to a sustainable harvest?

[Keith Sullivan]

Supply of labour is certainly a concern in many areas now, but I think that if we build a valuable fishery, something that pays good wages to those involved, we'll be able to attract workers. We have a generation of people who love this industry and are very interested in life in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. For example, Mr. Wareham talked about the average term for people in his plant being over 20 years.

We may have challenges, but I think the main thing we focus on is getting the most value possible from our fish. If we hit the high-end markets and we're able to pay harvesters to stay there, I think there's a very bright future. We might go to other models where we don't get the highest value and may not be able to pay people, but I think we should strive to get the most value and make sure that we make those well-paid jobs. That will certainly help attract a labour force.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Mr. Butler.

[Derek Butler]

Despite the evident youth you see here on the panel—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Derek Butler]

—we have the lowest birth rate in the country, and that's including any U.S. state, and the oldest population in the country. It's a remarkable change from the 1970s. I'm a little less optimistic. I think we have significant challenges in terms of our labour force.

The recent change by the government in respect of the temporary foreign workers was helpful to the processing sector, particularly in the Maritimes, where the challenge is even more acute. I think we have a real challenge. Groundfish is going to be more labour-intensive work than shellfish is. That means you're going to need to bring in workers, which is unlikely to happen, I think, to the extent that it's done in other jurisdictions.

I think we have a real challenge with the aging workforce, given the labour required to do groundfish, because it's labour-intensive as opposed to capital-intensive. Absent some structural changes in the fishery to achieve the year-long fishery that together we've alluded to here, my fear is that, as is the case with Norway and Alaska in the pollock fishery—Alaska is the world's largest whitefish fishery, I believe—the fish will end up in China for additional processing. We need high innovation. That takes a lot of money.

I would add one thing. We've mentioned Iceland. I think Keith mentioned it before me. I would say to the committee that if there were ever a parliamentary trip worth its merit, it would be the panel's visiting Iceland to see how things are done. They have groundfish and they have pelagics. They haven't had the shellfish. They had cold water shrimp, but not the snow crab. They have done things. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We don't need to do everything they do, either, because we're unique. But we don't need to reinvent the wheel.