Fisheries Committee on Oct. 17th, 2016

[Vidar Landmark]

I'd like to add to that.

I agree that the most important thing is to control the fishery mortality rate, but how you fish and where you fish and when you fish is also of great importance. Technical regulation to ensure that your fishery pattern is good is very important so that you actually fish the right fish from the stock. As I mentioned, this is about mesh sizes and area closures and protection of juveniles, regulation on how much fish you are allowed to have under a minimum size. Those technical details regulating the fishery pattern are a little bit boring, but are very important in managing a stock.

The question of discards also comes into this. Discarding the small fish instead of avoiding fishing the small fish is not a positive way to do this.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

The next thing is the interactive species, whether it's cod prey species or cod predators. What have your countries done in the management of those species, whether it's catches and so on? We've recently heard about the different relationships between cod and the snow crab and other prey species of the cod.

I also want to get into the seal management and the predation by seals not only on cod but on their common prey.

[Gudmundur Thordarson]

For Iceland, the two main prey species for cod in Iceland are capelin and shrimp. In the initial harvest control rule it was kind of estimated in economic terms what would be the best option to do, and it was calculated purely on monetary grounds that it would be more efficient to kind of sacrifice the shrimp stock, having the cod eat the shrimp rather than fishing down the cod stock. So shrimp was kind of sacrificed on that level.

Capelin, of course, is a very important prey species for cod, and there's a correlation between the weight of cod and the abundance of capelin. In the most recent version of the management plan or the harvest control rule for capelin in Icelandic waters, it's actually taking account of the predation by cod, saithe, and haddock on the capelin stock. Yes, these prey activities have to be there.

In regard to seals, we don't have a lot of seals in Iceland. The harp seal and the grey seal have never really been in huge stocks there, and the harp and hooded seals [Inaudible—Editor] are not really a problem in Iceland. The minke whales are known predators of cod. We have some whaling for minke whales, but it is not large. So not much is being done about the cod predators. I think that's the story from Iceland.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

How about in Norway?

[Vidar Landmark]

On the Norwegian side it's more or less the same story as from Iceland. We have for our capelin in the Barents Sea our harvest control rule, which takes account of the need for capelin as food for the cod stock. That is maybe the only species-by-species harvest control rule we have, where we actually manage one species according to the needs of another species.

We do not have much seal hunting along the coast or in the Barents Sea, after the Russians closed down their hunt for seal pups some 10 years ago. That is something we are a little bit concerned about about. But the biggest impact on the cod stock, as far as we know, is from the whale stocks. We do have some hunting for minke whales, but not for any other of the whale stocks.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

I have 20 seconds.

Have you noted any specific changes in ocean conditions over the last 30 to 45 years? I know 20 seconds isn't enough, but speak in general terms about the ocean conditions—temperatures, salinity, those types of things—in your countries. In your research what major changes have you seen there?

[Gudmundur Thordarson]

The short answer from Iceland is yes, we have seen changes. It's getting warmer. We have seen changes in the distribution of capelin. We have seen mackerel come into our waters. So yes, there have been quite a lot of changes, and that's mostly linked to temperature.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It would be good to hear what those changes are further on, if someone else wants to—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Our guests can elaborate on those answers. I'll certainly give you more time.

If you have more to say on that last question, please feel free to continue.

[Gudmundur Thordarson]

Just to clarify, the pattern of capelin migration has changed a lot. It used to be up to the Jan Mayen area north of Iceland, but it's now more to the east coast of Greenland, and that has made it more difficult to search for because it's often under the ice. Also there is some indication of actually capelin spawning in the north, which wasn't the case. It has always spawned in the south. These are the kinds of changes we're seeing. These could have fundamental changes for the cod stock in Iceland because, as I said earlier, the cod stock is heavily dependent on capelin, so if the capelin stops migrating....

The capelin is a net energy transfer into the system in Iceland. They come to Iceland, spawn, and after spawning, most die. It's a feast in March when they spawn.

Also, with the warming of the ocean temperature and the increase in mackerel stock, we're seeing a lot more mackerel entering our waters. The mackerel actually come into Iceland to eat in Icelandic waters, so it's taking energy out of the system. How that affects all the other things is a different story. These changes can have serious consequences in Iceland that we cannot really predict at the moment, and a lot more research is needed.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

Thank you.

We'll now turn to Mr. Donnelly for seven minutes.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I would like to thank the representatives of both Norway and Iceland for being here to provide testimony to this committee.

Mr. Landmark, you talked about the downturn or the collapse in 1989-90 with the cod. Could you tell us a bit about how much time it took for the cod to recover? Also, how did your country manage the cod stocks towards recovery?

[Vidar Landmark]

It didn't take very long. The cod stock recovered very quickly both due, we think, to better natural conditions, but not least because we got the fishery under control and reduced the fishery so much during the first years of the 1990s. When we came to 1995-96, we had total catches of cod in the Barents Sea, the Norwegian Sea, and along the coast of Norway up higher than 700,000 tonnes again. Actually it took four, five, or six years before the stock recovered to the normal situation.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

What did you do differently? Did you wait five years? Did you impose different management methods? Did you do anything different?

[Vidar Landmark]

We had very strict quota regulations, especially for our coastal fleet. In the 1980s we had individual vessel quotas for the trawlers in the cod fishery, but in reality it was a free fishery for the whole coastal fleet. We had about 4,000 or 5,000 vessels fishing in that fishery during the 1980s. We imposed very strict regulation both when it came to access and individual quotas for the vessels, and they went down from fishing something like 70, 80, or 100 tonnes for small vessels per year in the 1980s to something like 8, 10, or 12 tonnes per vessel during the first years of the 1990s.

It was a strict quota regulation. There was no moratorium on the fishery, but strict quota regulations were imposed.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You also mentioned how you fish, where you fish, and when you fish is really important. Does your country have any marine protected areas? How does that play in with the fishery?

[Vidar Landmark]

They're not marine protected areas as you would think of them from most of the international discussion and the national discussions on marine protected areas, as no-take zones for all kinds of fisheries. We are very concerned about prohibiting fisheries in areas where we have too high an intermixture of juveniles from various species, so it's more a question of being able to close and open areas according to the situation, for instance, in different parts of the year.

In the Barents Sea, we will more or less at all times have huge areas that are closed for fisheries now due to the intermixture of juveniles, but in two months it could be different. We try to follow catches in these areas and send in vessels to explore the areas to see if it is possible to reopen them, but they are not marine protected areas in the meaning of a defined area where all kinds of fisheries are prohibited.

[Elisabeth Norgard Gabrielsen]

If I might add to that, at the same time, in the early 1990s, the joint commission made guidelines for closing and opening of areas so that we would follow the same rules.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

In your opinion when looking at the Canadian cod stock, if it were to recover, what lessons could you give Canada or could Canada learn from your country to ensure high-quality cod products on the world market?

[Vidar Landmark]

That is a difficult question.

In our experience, more or less fixed vessel quotas giving the vessels the possibility to plan their activities during the year is an important management tool to avoid Olympic fisheries where you are only after quantity and not after quality. At the end of the day, the important thing is how much money you are paid for your catch, not how many tonnes you have caught. A regulation that gives the individual fishermen and the individual vessels the possibility of planning their activity according to the seasons where they fish is important.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You didn't mention gear type there. Is that not as much of a concern?

[Vidar Landmark]

Our policy has been that it should be left for the individual vessel and fisherman to choose what he finds most effective and suitable for his activity and pattern of fishery. It depends not only on the main catch, but also on what kind of bycatches they are after or not after.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

How's my time?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Robert Sopuck]

You have 40 seconds. We'll allow our guests to go on past the time.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'll ask Mr. Thordarson just one question.

In Iceland you have a certification program. Can you talk about how the certification has helped the Icelandic cod fishery?