I'd just add that I want to talk about trust and the question of whether people have trust in these systems that are put in place to ensure conservation. As scientists, we're just the messengers. The context is that there have been widespread declines in fish habitat and there have been widespread declines in freshwater fish, at least for species at risk, anyway, on which we have data. We've seen these species decline.
It's concerning to people when they see wording that could allow for more things to happen. It's pretty unambiguous that whereas one thing said you can't do it, this other one adds a lot of caveats. I think this is where people were coming from when they opposed a lot of these changes. It could be that there's a network of things that come into effect here and there that might patch some of this up, but we're not going to trust that, because over the past number of years there have been declines, declines, and more declines. This is why people resisted this, and this is why scientists were so skeptical when we saw this wording change. Most of us aren't legal experts but we know science and we can certainly read these words and imagine all these scenarios in which you could have further declines.
In this environment, I think it's fair to say that we have conservation values; a lot of people do. They want to see long-term sustainability, so that's where this messaging about concern came from. We all want to be prosperous and we want to see things proceed in an environmentally sustainable way, and this is where we're coming from with a lot of this testimony today. It's not about shutting things down; it's about having people do things in the right way so that we can ensure that we get all these benefits for generations to come.