Evidence of meeting #51 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tony Matson  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Catherine Blewett  Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Trevor Swerdfager  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science and Oceans Protection Plan, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Jeffery Hutchinson  Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Philippe Morel  Acting/Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone, to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. We have on the docket today supplementary estimates (C), pursuant to Standing Order 81(5). We also will be discussing the main estimates.

I want to welcome our guests. We have a long list of people here. I'm going to try to get through it.

First of all, from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Catherine Blewett, deputy minister; Tony Matson, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer; Jeffery Hutchinson, commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard; and Philippe Morel, acting/senior assistant deputy minister, ecosystems and fisheries management. From DFO as well, and certainly no stranger to this particular committee, Trevor Swerdfager has been here quite a bit over the past little while; he is senior assistant deputy minister, ecosystems and ocean science. Also from DFO, we have Sylvie Lapointe, acting/assistant deputy minister, ecosystems and fisheries management.

We also have with us Mr. Terry Beech, the MP for Burnaby North—Seymour, who is also the new parliamentary secretary.

Last and by no means least, returning to us once again is the Honourable Dominic LeBlanc, Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard.

The schedule today requires you to be here. You said you were going to be here for an hour, but I'm going to let you start with the news to the committee. There's a change in that, I believe.

Minister, please proceed with your opening comments.

8:50 a.m.

Beauséjour New Brunswick

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Yes, and the change is not that I'm here for 15 minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and colleagues.

I know how important these meetings are. I always want to be available and will be available any time that I or my colleagues at the table, whom the chair generously introduced, can be here. I am happy to stay until 10:15 for 90 minutes with my colleagues, if it's the desire of the committee, to answer questions. If not, I'm also happy to come back at another moment. Really, I'm in your hands. We can extend that one hour by another half-hour if that's the desire of members, but we can play it by ear, Mr. Chair. As always, we're in good hands when we're in your hands.

I won't introduce my colleagues at the department. You, Mr. Chair, did that. I'd just point out that you have met many professional women and men here who serve in our department, and I continue to be inspired by their work every day that I have the privilege of working with them.

Terry Beech is new to his particular function. You know him as a colleague in the House of Commons. I feel privileged to have a British Columbian and somebody of his experience and his insight working with me. I was very happy when the Prime Minister made that decision. It's the first time we have the chance to appear together at a committee table like this, and I'm very happy to be here with Terry.

Also, Mr. Chair, you referred to Jeff Hutchinson as the commissioner of the Coast Guard, and this is his first appearance at a standing committee as the new commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard. The Prime Minister made that appointment some weeks ago. We lost a remarkable woman, Jody Thomas, who has gone to a role at the national defence department, where I'm sure she'll continue to serve in an extraordinary way, but we're very lucky that Jeff accepted the Prime Minister's offer and will be leading that critical national institution. Jeff, in your new role as commissioner you have more gold on the uniform, a few extra stripes, and it's the first time that he and I will be together at this table. I wanted to just highlight that.

Mr. Chair, we are here, as you noted, to talk about estimates and supplementary estimates (C). That's a fundamental part of the work of Parliament, so it's a privilege and it's something I take very seriously.

Before we talk a bit about supplementary estimates (C) and the main estimates and any issues that members would like to address in their questions, I want to thank you for the work you have done, particularly with respect to the review of the Fisheries Act. We have followed your work, and I know thousands and thousands of Canadians have followed your work very closely.

We have your report. Under the rules, we have a certain number of days to provide a government response. However, as I said to you the last time I was at this table, we recognize the urgency of moving properly but expeditiously. It is very much my hope that we will not take that full amount of time, so we are working diligently and expeditiously to respond to your recommendations in your report. My commitment is to try to get back to you and to Parliament in a period of time that is significantly less than the time that the rules might prescribe, because I think it recognizes and validates the great work that all of you have done.

I also note that you're going to be doing some work on marine protected areas, again something that is critical for us as a department and a government. I look forward to collaborating with you and I thank you for working on that.

I also note that Pat Finnigan would be happy to see your work on Atlantic salmon. In my province of New Brunswick that is critical, but also across the region, in every province including Quebec. It's an issue that economically and from an ecosystem perspective has huge potential and huge concerns.

Again, thank you for that work. We will take your report seriously and endeavour to carry on an ongoing dialogue. I'm certainly very happy with the work that all of you have done. For us, as a department and as a government, it's hugely valuable, and I want to thank you at this table.

I wanted to talk mainly about the department's spending plans. As I said, one of Parliament's essential duties is to hold the government to account for the taxpayer dollars it spends. That is a responsibility our department takes very seriously. There are never enough resources to do everything we would like to support Canadians.

Our department received voted appropriations from Parliament, and we strive to manage those funds in the best interests of Canadians and to provide an official accounting of how we use the money, as we are doing today. This is a tremendous privilege for us.

Supplementary estimates (C) contain key items that will allow us to deal with vessels of concern, notably, $17.7 million to address the threat of pollutants from the Kathryn Spirit near Montreal, and to undertake vessel life extension and refit work on the CCGS Hudson, the offshore oceanographic and hydrographic survey vessel of the Canadian Coast Guard.

Mr. Chair, in the main estimates 2017-18, a total of $2.2 billion is proposed. The main estimates total approximately $40.1 million less than last fiscal year. They reflect new funding announced in budget 2016, such as the investment in ocean and freshwater research in Canada. The slight reduction is due mainly to the conclusion of funding for temporary programs and planned funding variances for ongoing programs, and obviously if people want specific details on any of these we're happy to provide them. The chief financial officer and my colleagues at the department would do so.

As members of this committee know, our government has made a historic investment in aquatic sciences. I talked about this at this table the last time we were here; it was in this very room, actually. It's the largest investment in over a generation. Trevor and his colleagues at the senior level of the department have been doing a fantastic job at building what I hope will be world-class scientific capacity from the investment that Parliament gave us in aquatic sciences.

As an example, Mr. Chair, of the tremendous value we place on science, we hope and believe the $197-million allocation of last year's budget over five years can rebuild the ocean and freshwater science capacity of the department. It will strengthen evidence-based decision-making and also establish Canada's scientific leadership on a global stage.

We are well into the process of hiring 135 new biologists, oceanographers, and other highly skilled scientific staff. Their work will help us better understand Canada's aquatic ecosystems and what we can do to protect them. Re-establishing our capacity for science and research is going to serve all Canadians because the more we understand our oceans and ecosystems, the better placed we are to protect them and create sustainable economic opportunities.

It's not only about investing, for example, in scientific capacity for pure research in and of itself, which has a lot of merit; it's also about, as you know as members of Parliament better than anyone, making the right decisions and managing public resources for the economic and social future of the country, because so many of the communities that we represent at this table depend on the successful ecosystem management of these resources for, frankly, their successful economic future as well. We recognize the link there.

Colleagues will also know the Prime Minister announced in November—I was doing an announcement on the opposite end, Mr. Chair, in your province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and you were there with us that evening—what we believe is also a very significant investment in ocean protections of $1.5 billion to create a world-leading marine safety system. Transport Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard, and Fisheries and Oceans will obviously benefit from this investment, but the main beneficiaries we hope will be Canadians, the environment, and the Canadian economy. We think there will be far-reaching benefits to this investment.

The Coast Guard is an institution that Canadians care deeply about. It needs to be strengthened. It needs to be rebuilt. The women and men who serve in the Coast Guard do so in remarkable circumstances, with great courage and dedication, and I think we owe it to them collectively to give them the most modern, well-equipped, forward-looking institution that we can build for and with them. We think that this investment will be a key part of that. I will conclude here, because I want to have a chance for us to exchange and have dialogue after the chief financial officer gives some precise and brief comments.

Indigenous reconciliation for us is also a key priority. The Prime Minister said it. Other ministers have said it. Colleagues in Parliament in every corner of the House of Commons have talked about this, as well as in the Senate. We are really trying to up our game as a department and as a government in how we build a day-to-day, hour-by-hour relationship with indigenous peoples.

Our department is very much at the front line of managing one aspect of the federal relationship with indigenous peoples on all three coasts, but this needs to be nourished and strengthened and renewed. We think that these increased investments, including the oceans protection plan, will allow the Canadian Coast Guard to better partner with indigenous coastal communities.

I look to my colleagues from British Columbia, who see this reality in a way that I'm beginning to learn about. They are often the first responders, and these indigenous coastal communities in British Columbia are the best examples.

They inhabit a rugged, remote coastline. I had the privilege of meeting with representatives of the Heiltsuk Nation, who responded to the completely unacceptable circumstance that happened near Bella Bella with the tugboat and the spill of diesel fuel. The best way we can serve Canadians and protect marine ecosystems is to better partner with many of these communities. I hope and believe that a good portion of this investment will go a significant way to doing exactly that.

By way of conclusion, our department is an economic department for the Government of Canada. We make decisions hopefully in partnership with the fishing industry, with other Canadians, and with indigenous peoples to encourage and improve economic growth for Canada. We're also an environmental department, with huge responsibilities as stewards of Canada's oceans to better manage marine ecosystems and to provide the services and the remarkable work that the Canadian Coast Guard can offer Canadians and our partners globally.

Those are three areas we think about and worry about every hour of every day that we have the privilege of holding these jobs.

It will be a privilege for us to answer your questions and continue to work with all of you as we make an effort to contribute to something that Canadians care deeply about.

Now, with your permission, Mr. Chair, I'm going to ask the chief financial officer to provide details.

Then I'm happy to continue the questions.

Tony, do you want to...?

9 a.m.

Tony Matson Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Thank you, Minister Leblanc, Mr. Chair.

Hello. Bonjour to you, committee members.

My name is Tony Matson, and I am the chief financial officer at Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard. We are pleased to be here this morning to provide the committee with an overview of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' supplementary estimates (C) for 2016-17 and main estimates for 2017-18.

I've prepared very brief remarks. This should allow plenty of time to go through any questions the committee members may have.

For the 2016-17 supplementary estimates (C), we are seeking Parliament's approval for a total of $17.7 million. This would bring our approved voted authorities to date to $2.624 billion, as $2.607 billion has previously been approved by Parliament through the main estimates, supplementary estimates (A), supplementary estimates (B), and transfers from central votes carried forward from last year.

This funding summary is presented on page 2—22 of the supplementary estimates (C) publication.

It is on page 2-50 of the French version.

To summarize, we are seeking $7.2 million in operating expenditures, $7.9 million in capital expenditures, and $2.6 million in grants and contributions.

As highlighted by our minister, the majority of our new funding requirements will be spent by the Canadian Coast Guard to address the threat of pollutants from the Kathryn Spirit and for vessel life extension and refit work for the Canadian Coast Guard vessel Hudson. These items are also presented on page 2—22 of the publication.

DFO is requesting $10.7 million to proceed with removal of the derelict cargo vessel Kathryn Spirit. This is a controlled, on-site dismantlement to completely remove the vessel from Lac-Saint-Louis. The department is requesting $7.3 million to extend the life of the Hudson to ensure the service gap is managed until the completion of the new offshore oceanographic science vessel, ensuring that programs continue to be delivered.

The remaining items listed on pages 2—22 and 2—23 of the supplementary estimates publication

or pages 2-50 and 2-51 of the French version.

are largely technical and routine in nature. This includes accessing revenues received from polluters for cleanup costs, seeking internal vote transfers to properly align existing reference levels, and transfers to other departments such as Shared Services Canada, which has been tasked to modernize our network connectivity. DFO is a geographically dispersed department, so network performance has a direct impact on productivity and mission-critical applications.

I would like to fast-forward to 2017-18. The Honourable Scott Brison tabled the 2017-18 main estimates on Thursday, February 23, on behalf of all organizations. The main estimates include all those items for which DFO has received previous approval or changes to funding profiles for multi-year initiatives where relevant.

With regard to numbers, we are seeking Parliament's approval for $2.081 billion. The breakdown of this amount is presented on page 98 of the publication,

or page 2-10 of the French version.

Under vote 1, operating expenditures, we are seeking approximately $1.3 billion. I would note that $749.5 million of that is for salaries.

Under vote 5, capital expenditures, we are seeking $752 million. I would note that the majority of this capital funding is for limited one-time investments, and that only about $134 million of that is ongoing funding.

For vote 10, grants and contributions, we are seeking $71 million.

The remaining amounts presented in our estimates are contributions for the department as a whole for employee benefits and the minister's salary and car allowance. They are presented for information purposes only, as they have their own separate enabling legislation.

Considering our net decrease year over year is only about $40.1 million, I will highlight quickly a few adjustments that are part of the delta.

As the minister pointed out, the biggest increase is tied to the funding announced in Budget 2016 for ocean and freshwater research in Canada. The main estimates include funding in the amount of $41.3 million.

The next big-ticket item is funding to address, again, the threat of pollutants from the Kathryn Spirit, and $20 million is included in these main estimates to ensure the successful and complete removal of the derelict vessel from Lac-Saint-Louis.

Let me now shift to key examples of reduced funding profiles when compared to 2016-17.

The largest decrease is a scheduled funding profile change of $43.6 million for the construction of three offshore fishery science vessels. With regard to infrastructure investments, at this point there is $40 million less in our opening reference levels because of the successful completion of 2014 federal infrastructure initiatives.

Funding related to the most recent budget 2016 announcement for further investments in maintaining and upgrading federal infrastructure assets is included in these main estimates and is for the most part progressing as planned.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to complement Mr. LeBlanc's opening remarks on our final supplementary estimates for this year and for main estimates for 2017-18. My colleagues and I would be happy to entertain any questions you may have.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing us to do that. I saw your face as we talked about the Kathryn Spirit. I could sense in your heart that you were wondering about the Manolis L. We're using this as an example of the whole issue of derelict vessels, and I'm happy to talk about it, but one of the critical ones is the Manolis L, and I don't want you to think that we have forgotten about that. A couple of weeks from now my colleague, the Minister of Finance, may have something to say, and I hope that we're able to continue the work on that one.

I've pre-empted your question. I didn't want you to look all dishevelled for the next hour.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

I didn't realize clairvoyance was one of your best assets.

Thank you for that. It's an answer to a question I have not asked, as you pointed out, but it's an answer that I truly appreciate. As you know, my own abandoned derelict vessel at the bottom of the ocean is causing me problems, and I thank you for your intervention on that. Thank you also to the commissioner of the coast guard.

Moving right along, folks, we go to the question-and-answer session. We go to the government first, for seven minutes, then we go to the opposition for seven minutes, and then finally to the NDP.

First we're going to turn to Ken McDonald for seven minutes.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, MP Pat Finnigan, so I'm sure you'll watch the clock for us.

Thank you again, Minister, for appearing before committee. I think between you and the former minister, this makes the fourth time that the minister has appeared before this committee, which I think is unprecedented for any department thus far in our term of office.

If I could get precise and short answers so that I can get through as many questions as possible, I'd appreciate it. I'm sure you're good at that.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

It'll all be reflective of the questions, right? The length of the answer will be reflective of the length of the question too.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

When you talk about length, the chair grew six inches when you made that comment about the Manolis L.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

He can't ask questions about shrimp. We skated him off the ice on the shrimp issue.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

We're on television, ladies and gentlemen, just as a reminder. Thank you very much.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

First, Mr. Minister, we've heard quite a bit recently about aquatic invasive species. What is the government doing to combat the rise of aquatic invasive species—more specifically, the Asian carp in the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

As I've said to colleagues in the House of Commons, we recognize the importance of aquatic invasive species. The Asian carp has come up in Parliament a number of times. It represents a very significant threat and challenge.

We know that investing in science is part of the answer. It's not a perfect answer, because to understand and anticipate what these invasive species mean and can do and the threat they represent is only part of the answer. We need to make investments in infrastructure and other methods that will, in fact, reduce and or eliminate the threat.

Mr. Chair, through you to Ken, provinces have a key role to play in this area. We have been very encouraged by our discussions with the Province of Ontario and the Province of Quebec. I spoke with the Manitoba minister with respect to Lake Winnipeg. They will work with us and are anxious, frankly, to partner with us, because they recognize the impact this can have on their fisheries as well.

The other thing that is of considerable importance for us is to work with the United States. Over the years they have made historic investments, particularly in the Great Lakes context, but as you have noted, Ken, the St. Lawrence system is hugely impacted by this. We will continue to work with the United States.

I'm hoping that we're in a position to announce increased investments in multilateral or binational organizations like the Great Lakes Fisheries Commission and in working with a number of governors from the Great Lakes states who also have, frankly, very innovative and very forward-looking research solutions that not only monitor but counter the effects of invasive species. It's all hands on deck for us, but we're prepared to allocate additional resources, and the Government of Ontario, frankly, has been one of our best partners in this regard.

The minister and I issued a statement recently that talked about our commitment to work together on this. and we will be there

to the extent possible

with what is possible financially, because we recognize the priority this has for the long-term economic and environmental viability of so many ecosystems.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

You referenced in your comments the Fisheries Act review. Of course, you mentioned the document that's in your hands now or in the department's hands. What is the government's next step toward implementing changes to the act and reinforcing protections lost in 2012?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Again, through you, Mr. Chair, Ken, thank you for the work that you have collectively done.

Right now we are going through every one of the recommendations, obviously, and preparing a detailed—and I hope you'll find compelling—response to the recommendations. At the same time and on a parallel track, we're consulting with provincial partners. Now that we have the benefit of your report, the provinces and indigenous groups will have, from our perspective, a key role to play in offering advice and guidance as we ultimately prepare government legislation.

I will go to cabinet to get the authority to introduce government legislation. I hope and believe you'll find, based on a lot of the work you did as a committee, that legislation then will ultimately go through the normal legislative process. I hope I'll be back at this table to discuss it with you. It will be drafted in such a way that if this committee and the Senate have suggestions for better ways to do it, we will be open, as we always should be, to amendments and suggestions on how we can get this right.

We're going to proceed expeditiously. It's a mandate requirement the Prime Minister gave me. It's also important to note that this review of the Fisheries Act is also part of our broader government agenda, which includes, for example, reviewing the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act and the Navigable Waters Protection Act. We have different reviews going on across the government.

I seem to be the first one out of the gate, thanks to your work in terms of the Fisheries Act, but we're going to be expeditious and rigorous, and we look forward to a continued interaction with all of you as we prepare government legislation.

Have I ragged the puck on your question, Pat? Go ahead.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I am always pleased to see a colleague and neighbour, whose riding is just south of my own.

I would like to discuss owner-operators. They weren't mentioned much in the report because the matter fell somewhat outside the scope of the study. Things aren't the same on the east and west coasts. It is accepted practice on the east coast for a fish harvester to own the licence and the catch, particularly in the case of lobster.

The late Christian Brun, the former executive director of the Maritime Fishermen's Union, did a lot of advocacy on that front, with the support of the region's fish harvesters. The risk of licences being transferred to outside interests still exists.

Do you have any plans to review the matter and take more than just policy measures?

It could be codified in legislation, in which case, I would suggest naming the act after Christian Brun.

I will now turn the floor over to you, Minister.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Finnigan, for the question.

Like my colleagues here today, I was saddened by the tragic passing of Christian Brun. As I have said publicly, he was a friend of mine and a source of great inspiration. Later this morning, in fact, I am meeting with Melanie Sonnenberg, president of the Canadian Independent Fish Harvester's Federation. Discussions between the organizations and the Maritime Fishermen's Union will continue.

I took note of the evidence that you received at your committee hearings. I took note of the expression of support on the east coast and from some people on the west coast, but I recognize the different culture and the different management regimes that exist there. It's not the same context at all.

I have thought for a long time—and I've shared this with my colleagues, the deputy minister, and our other colleagues here at the table—that we need to strengthen our own application of this policy, whether it's PIIFCAF or other instruments, when we as a government, as a department, say this is a sacred management principle for the fishery on the east coast. We all have in our constituencies, or certainly on the east coast, anecdotal examples of where we looked the other way or we weren't as rigorous as we could or should have been in enforcing a policy that is foundational to the management of the inshore and midshore fisheries on Canada's east coast.

I will be working with my colleagues in the department, and ultimately with my colleagues in the cabinet, to see if and how we could strengthen our government's ability to enforce that policy. There are different ways to do it. You can legislate it and you can do it by regulatory instrument, and all of those are certainly under active consideration.

I will come back and talk to you once we have arrived at sharper decisions, but this is something that I will move on. I will move on it aggressively, and I will be thoughtful and rigorous in raising our game in enforcing this policy, as well as in making it endure and protecting it perhaps from different winds of the future.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

As the committee has probably noticed, I was rather generous in my time there. It's no reflection on you, Minister. What can I say? We're all impressed by what you were saying. Since we have a question from the Conservatives and then the NDP, I will be equally generous on these next two questions.

That said, and not to cut into your time, Mr. Doherty, but I want to start by saying congratulations on the passage of your private member's bill last night, Bill C-211, on post-traumatic stress disorder. It's not very often that these are successful, but you certainly were last evening, so congratulations on behalf of the entire committee.

9:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Now seven minutes are yours.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

You know what? Yesterday was a shining example of what we can do when we put aside partisan squabbles and get to work, working for the greater good. Now the heavy lifting begins, and I look forward to working with our government partners on that.

That said, Mr. Chair, I hope you'll give me just an extra minute. While not under our purview and not the responsibility of any of our witnesses or guests who are here today, Canada lost one of our serving members yesterday. Master Corporal Alfred Barr died during a training accident on Wednesday. He was with 435 Transport and Rescue Squadron and was based in Winnipeg as a search and rescue technician. I know that Canadians from coast to coast to coast are watching today, and I think we would be remiss if we didn't mention that. Our thoughts and our prayers go out to his family and his friends. I just wanted to make that mention.

Mr. Minister, thank you for being here today.

I want to focus my comments and questions on the marine protected areas. As you mentioned in your opening speech, the government is committed to increasing the proportion of Canada's marine protected areas fairly aggressively. We've heard testimony previously that they're aggressive targets: 5% by 2017, 10% by 2020.

I have a few questions. First, when marine protected areas are designated and regulated, do they apply to everyone?

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Thank you for the question, colleague, and, by the way, I add my voice to your comments with respect to the tragic passing of the SAR tech. These are remarkable women and men who do unbelievable things, so I think it was appropriate to acknowledge that sad news.

On the question of whether they apply to everyone and all concerned, it would depend on how they are drafted. There are a number of ways and a number of measures that can collectively constitute a marine protected area.

I'm not trying to weasel out of your question. They could, and in some cases may, apply to everyone; however, in a number of other cases, based on scientific evidence and complete transparency in terms of what that means, there perhaps are some people who would be less impacted or who would see a marine protected area apply to them differently

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Minister, I appreciate the comment.

Would it be fair to say that you would acknowledge that the designation of marine protected area could have an economic impact on coastal communities, indigenous and otherwise, as well as commercial? They would be impacted by those areas.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

I see where your line of questioning is going.

Again, we will and are determined to meet the targets, as you noted, but we're conscious that they can sometimes have an economic displacement. At all times, any government would want to maintain that to the most modest level, the most minimum level possible.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Has that economic impact been studied?