Fisheries Committee on March 9th, 2017

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Are there no questions from you, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I think you answered my first question, and if memory serves, I don't think I even asked it. Nevertheless, kudos to you, sir, for pre-empting my question; I appreciate your answer at the beginning.

That said, we thank you for your time. It was generous. You gave us 90 minutes, and we appreciate that, and the time of the parliamentary secretary as well.

We're going to have to ask the officials stay around, because we have 30 minutes left. We're going to go to our next questioner shortly, but in the meantime, would you like to sum up with a few comments, Minister?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I won't sum up, Mr. Chair, because I wouldn't want to waste your time in summarizing the comments that I have—hopefully constructively—offered your committee.

I want to say thank you. It's a privilege to be here. Many of you have been friends of mine for a long time, and many of you have become new friends of mine. This is an industry and a subject that I care deeply about, as I know all of you do. A chance to work with you constructively in the interest of Canadians is something that's a privilege.

Mr. Chair, I am always available and enthusiastic to come back at a time where you and your colleagues see fit. I hope that between now and June we can have a chance to interact on a number of other subjects, on your reports or any other matter that's of interest to you. As I said, I am literally going to meet the Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters right now; Melanie Sonnenberg is waiting with her colleagues in my office on the fourth floor upstairs. I will be excusing myself, as they have been waiting 15 minutes already, but the officials and the parliamentary secretary are happy to stay for the next 30 minutes, if we can provide additional insight.

At any time, Mr. Chair, if you or your colleagues would like specific written information or something the department can provide, not only for your work as a committee but also for your work as members of Parliament in your constituencies, it would be a privilege to get you that information.

Thank you.

I look forward to meeting with the committee members again whenever they deem it appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Minister. Some of the participants in your next meeting have been texting me as well, so off you go. Thank you for your time.

We're going to take a break for just a minute or so, and then we'll come back with Mr. Morrissey and our officials who remain. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'd like to ask all our participants to please come back.

My apologies, Mr. Beech; I thought you were departing as well, but it looks like you're still here. I'm not saying that as a negative note but as a very positive thing. It's great to still have you here.

I'll get everyone to come back. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Moving right along in our schedule, we're going to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes.

Mr. Morrissey, go ahead.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to return to a question that was asked earlier by my colleague, and it relates to small craft harbours. There's a decrease of $64 million in the estimates. Who could elaborate on that a bit more? Please be brief, because I have some other questions and I have only five minutes.

[Tony Matson]

Do you mean with respect to small craft harbours specifically, or is it with respect to the federal infrastructure initiative? Our funding for the federal infrastructure initiative has gone down, but that's only reflective of the fact that our funding for FII-1 is expired, and we're now into FII-2. With respect to small craft harbours, the funding has gone down slightly between the two initiatives, but there is ongoing funding for small craft harbours.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

One of the issues I hear from regional managers in small craft harbours is that the maintenance allocation of their budget has not increased in years and years and years, which obviously means they can do less and less and less. Could one of you speak to that? Do you think it's adequate? Obviously, as a parliamentarian, I do not think the funds dedicated to small craft harbours maintenance is adequate. It's not even keeping up with the cost, and it's leading to significant increases in capital repairs when they finally have money to do it.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

I could certainly start with that, and we can get into more specific numbers.

Obviously there was a long period of neglect for individual small craft harbours and there was a need for a major investment. There aren't enough funds, of course, to fit that need; however, there is a very specific method under which the department prioritizes how these funds are utilized, between demonstrating need, the productivity of the harbour, and of course any risk to structural integrity. In terms of any of the numbers questions, I'll certainly throw it to the department.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I'd like for you to focus on the maintenance side, which has been at a similar amount now for years and years.

While you're thinking about that, then, as you obviously do not have the answer....

You have it?

[Tony Matson]

With respect to maintenance specifically, we have a budget set aside and we recognize that more investment is required in small craft harbours. That's reflected in the infrastructure funding that was provided. We received some $288 million over the last two years out of FII-1, and we received an additional $148 million for 2016-17 and 2017-18. That reflects the fact that with respect to our base budgets—this is temporary funding—there is additional funding required if you wanted to maintain what we call an “adequate refresh cycle” of our small craft harbours.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

How much of that money is going to be addressed to increasing the maintenance portion of small craft harbours' budget?

[Philippe Morel, Acting/Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

The A-base budget of the program is $95 million, but every year for the last five years we have received money from infrastructure from a budget that supports more than the creation of new small craft harbours: all the moneys we receive from the FII-1 or FII-2 are dedicated to renewing or restoring existing harbours, or divesting them, in some cases. There is no decrease in the investment in maintenance. The full money is used either for new facilities in the same harbour, if there's an increase of the need for the fishery industry, or to renew or renovate some aspect of the harbour.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I just want to leave on the record that I feel we should be looking at the maintenance part of the budget for small craft harbours under DFO and increasing it.

I have a question. Some port authorities have told me that governments in the past—and I won't attach it to any particular government—have had a habit of announcing projects years out. They would announce them over and over again, and the money didn't show up for years and years down the road and was simply never spent. It left the illusion that there were major investments going into small craft harbours, whereas in reality they did not occur.

Is any of the money that is now allocated to small craft harbours on a yearly basis carried forward, or is it all appropriated within that year and utilized within that year? As well, if it cannot be so utilized, how is it managed on a go-forward basis?

[Philippe Morel]

We plan to spend 100% of the money we receive from the A-base budget and also for the FII initiatives.

It happens sometimes that because of weather and contracting issues, some of the project spending has to be delayed—a very small portion—to another year, but the budget of the small craft harbours program is spent at 100% of what we plan every year. Usually the difference between what we plan at the beginning of the year and have spent at the end of the year is less than 1%. The reason is that we can reallocate between projects to make sure that we spend all of the money that is allocated to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Morel. Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

I want to go now to Mr. Donnelly for three minutes, on a day in which I'm feeling rather generous, so go ahead.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the parliamentary secretary for being here.

During the last federal election, the Liberals committed to supporting the independence of our Atlantic inshore fisheries by committing to the fleet separation and owner-operator policies, under the policy for preserving the independence of the inshore fleet in Canada's Atlantic fisheries, or PIIFCAF, and ensuring that any remaining controlling agreements are investigated thoroughly to bring to account any who may be undermining the principles of PIIFCAF.

I'm wondering when the government is going to deliver on this promise to fishermen to eliminate controlling agreements in the Atlantic fishery.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you for raising this question. It is something that the minister addressed earlier.

The PIIFCAF regime is a reflection that our government recognizes that small-boat independent owner-operators are really the backbone of fisheries and coastal communities on Canada's east coast. One thing I've discovered in this new role is the fundamental differences that occur in the ways the different regimes are set up between the west coast of our country and the east coast.

There is certainly a commitment by the minister and this government to ensure that the principles of PIIFCAF are upheld. I'm happy to go into any further details on that on any specific question that you might have.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

The specific question was just when you are going to address the controlling agreements. That's the concern they have.

I have a short time to ask questions, so I want to get in a second question on first nations co-management. Again in the election, the Liberals promised to do a better job of co-managing our oceans by working with indigenous peoples, and I have a couple of questions.

Will you include guiding principles of reconciliation that allow for and promote consent-based, shared decision-making processes—for example, of co-management or co-governance with first nations—that have the flexibility to reconcile pre-existing sovereignty in first nations jurisdictions with authority in the Fisheries Act?

The second question, if there's time, is this: do you recognize first nations' right to commercial trade and barter opportunities under the Fisheries Act?

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you very much for the question.

Reconciliation is something that I personally am quite interested in working on, certainly working with you as well as other members of this committee.

I believe, and I stand to be corrected, that this government has invested about $50 million in co-management since November 2015. We've seen the recent announcement with PNCIMA on the west coast that the minister made a number of weeks ago, and of course we're working on similar agreements with indigenous communities right across from coast to coast to coast, including the Inuit in Nunavut. It's something that we're committed to.

Something that I have also learned in this new role, in the short four and a half weeks that I've been here, is how central fish are to indigenous communities. The fact that any reconciliation conversation will have to involve the minister and the fact that the Prime Minister put a new committee together to deal with aspects of that conversation I think shows our government's commitment to moving forward on that file.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Can I have a quick question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

It has to be a very quick one. Go ahead.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

PICFI, the Pacific integrated commercial fisheries initiative, is generating good jobs in communities, and obviously we need them. While they're fostering environmental and economic sustainability, first nations are looking for long-term renewal and expansion of the program. Our caucus, the NDP caucus, has been calling for its renewal and expansion.

Is this something that you're considering? Will there be an announcement of this important initiative?

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

You know as well as I do, Mr. Donnelly, that I'm waiting for the budget, just as you are.

However, I can say that I share your sentiments that the program has been fairly successful in making sure that indigenous communities not only have access but have the equipment to exercise their access. I think that the minister is looking at ways that we could potentially grow the success of this program, but I don't have any details with me today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly. We appreciate it.

Thank you to everybody.

That concludes this meeting, as far as the witnesses are concerned. Again, I'd like to thank the department officials for being here, including Ms. Blewett; Mr. Morel; Mr. Swerdfager; the parliamentary secretary, Mr. Beech; and Commissioner Hutchinson. Thank you, Mr. Matson and Madam Lapointe. Thank you so very much for being here, all of you. In absentia, I say thank you to the minister as well.

Before everybody leaves, of course, we have to do the business of why we're here, which is the estimates. We're going to start with supplementary estimates (C) from 2016-17.

DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES AND OCEANS

Vote 1c—Operating expenditures..........$13,170,350

Vote 5c—Capital expenditures..........$7,540,606

(Votes 1c and 5c agreed to)

Shall I report the votes on the supplementary estimates (C) to the House?