Evidence of meeting #61 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Wayne Stetski NDP Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I would like to know whether your organizations have taken a position at all on oil and gas or undersea mining or some of those real commercial-industrial activities occurring in general, or even oil tankers moving through important commercial fishing waters.
Have your organizations taken a position on that and—if I were going to extend it—on whether they are appropriate in conservation areas? Apparently those activities can happen in some marine conservation areas.
Managing Director, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
There's a moratorium on oil and gas exploration on the west coast, so taking a position beyond that is kind of pointless. There are some huge opportunities on the west coast with undersea mining. Most of that is not being pursued. There's nobody out there who is actively doing that right now.
On the tanker issue, we face this with Kinder Morgan being approved in the Gulf Islands, which I would identify as one of the top 10 fishing areas in British Columbia, value-wise. It's close to communities and close to market. There's a proposal there for an NMCA, a national marine conservation area, which is likely going to shut down the little boats that are fishing there and allow these big tankers to go by.
That's the kind of picture we have. We don't think we're anywhere near the risk that these big tankers pose, so it's a huge issue.
Executive Director, BC Seafood Alliance
We have not taken a formal position. Clearly, though, we have concerns about all those kinds of things. It depends to some extent on how you do them. However, we certainly share Jim's view that if we look at a southern Strait of Georgia NMCA, probably the sector that would be most hurt would be commercial and recreational fishing. Those are areas that are close to communities that like their sustainable seafood.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Do any of our guests want to comment very quickly on Mr. Stetski's question?
Seeing none, we'll move along.
Mr. Hardie is next for a question, please.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
I have a quick question, I guess for Ms. Burridge.
When you started off, you mentioned the independent fishers that you represent. I'm just wondering, do the independent fishers on the west coast operate under the owner-operator policy?
Executive Director, BC Seafood Alliance
No, we don't operate under that on the west coast. We never have. The degree of corporate concentration or corporate ownership hasn't changed in the last two decades.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
Is that because it's not enforced or you just chose not to operate under that?
Executive Director, BC Seafood Alliance
We've always thought, on the west coast, that investment in fisheries is a good thing, and sometimes that investment has to come from corporations.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
We've heard some converging interests this morning. It has been excellent testimony from all.
Getting back to the pure MPA, if you like, is there an argument to be made just for the scientific value of having at least a limited number of absolutely zero-activity MPAs, acknowledging that other fisheries management practices have kept the west coast in pretty good shape otherwise?
Dr. Ban, would you say that there is at least scientific value, if not preservation or conservation value, in having a pure no-take MPA?
I'll ask the others for reflection also, if there is time.
Assistant Professor, School of Environmental Studies, University of Victoria, As an Individual
Absolutely I agree with that—for instance, scientifically to understand the impact of all other activities that might take place within the ocean that can then be protected within a no-take area. That can help us understand some of those impacts. It can also help us with the stock assessment and fisheries management to understand what the biomass levels might be without fishing.
Managing Director, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
In the context of integrated ecosystem-based management, no-take MPAs have a place and a role to play. I think there is room for that, definitely, but you need to be thinking about the bigger picture when you're doing this.
Liberal
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it's quite relevant to our study, because we undertook this study to look at the processes in place for the MPA establishment and consultation and so on.
I believe it was you, Mr. McIsaac, who spoke about the consultation, the multiple processes taking place on the west coast right now, and the fishing sector's ability to participate in all of those different processes at the same time. Would it be better to have a west coast process looking at all of them at the same time, or at least in conjunction, rather than spotifying all over the place?
Managing Director, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
The capacity to deal in multiple processes at the same time is a huge issue. The objectives in each of these processes are different. You don't have any kind of overarching framework that they're being fit into. That's a challenge. You need people who are knowledgeable at each one of these levels and who are bringing in the local knowledge. It's not housed in one person anywhere on the west coast. It's thus a huge challenge.
A lot of the knowledge that needs to come into play is held by folks who are fishing, who are out most of the year on the water earning their living, and who then, when they come in, are involved with fisheries management planning processes. This adds another.... They want to have family, have kids, and do other things. The capacity issue is a huge challenge.
Liberal
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
I'll start with a very quick question to Dr. Ban.
Do you think an MPA could have a detrimental effect by way of protecting an invasive species, whether plant or animal—or a predator, for instance—that would create a potential imbalance? Do you know anything about that? Or do they look at that? I'm just curious.
Assistant Professor, School of Environmental Studies, University of Victoria, As an Individual
MPAs can have effects on the food web. If, for instance, there's a lot of fishing of the top-level predators, they are likely to recover when the fishing pressure is taken away, and then they eat the smaller fish. You might then get a very different food web inside a protected area from the one you see outside. You may get less abundance of the mid-level fishes than you would see outside. That's not necessarily a detrimental impact of an MPA. I would say it just shows us how much fishing has changed the actual structure of our marine ecosystems.
In terms of invasive species, we don't know as much. Generally speaking, ecosystems that are healthier tend to resist invasion more than ecosystems that are more disturbed. It might, then, provide a beneficial impact, but it's not going to prevent invasive species either.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, everyone. We'll have to come to an end.
Dr. Ban, thank you so very much for joining us at this early hour.
I suppose, considering that you're all from B.C., it's still rather early for all of us, even though you are in Ottawa, isn't it?
Mr. McIsaac, it's good to see you again, and Ms. Burridge and Mr. Turris also.
Thanks, colleagues. We'll see you next week.
The meeting is adjourned.