Evidence of meeting #63 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Isabelle Côté
The 30%, as Boris said earlier, is a national goal. There's nothing that says that around Newfoundland specifically 30% of the waters would need to be closed to fishing.
I would argue, however, that the people of Newfoundland have been the first to experience a failure of fisheries management, which really should bring home to the people of Newfoundland that simply managing fisheries without the help of other methods that have been shown to be very effective elsewhere is perilous.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
On that note, you mention a failure of fisheries management, but I could argue as well that, as somebody brought up, we have a 200-mile limit of what we control with regard to stock and allocations and whatnot. What happens beyond that 200-mile limit.... Ships from other countries around the world have continued to this day to take huge quantities and huge quotas of fish that never get the opportunity to move inshore to Newfoundland and Labrador.
Yes, to some degree it was mismanagement, but I think a lot more of the world than Canada has to stand up and take responsibility for that mismanagement.
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Isabelle Côté
Possibly, but I don't think we can shift the blame completely to other nations for this particular problem.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
My comment wasn't to shift it. It was to take responsibility for the part that we're responsible for.
Dr. Worm, you said that Canadians support increased ocean protections, and your graphs show that. In your questioning of protections or in the survey, did you include the term “no-take zones” in those protected areas?
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Boris Worm
No. We just said “protected areas”, without really specifying how they would be protected.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Donnelly, you have three minutes, please.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have three minutes and two questions. I'd like to put the questions to all three witnesses, if I could.
First, I'm wondering if all three of you could say whether you agree or disagree with the statement that the very industry that governments around the world are trying to support, to ensure that it carries on, is one of the root causes as to why these many countries are in the predicament of having to increase marine protection. I'm obviously talking about the fishing industry.
To all three of you, do you agree or disagree with that?
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Boris Worm
I disagree, because I think protected areas have a broader objective than just reversing the damage of fisheries. They are also buffering against other threats. We've talked about shipping and other forms of habitat destruction. It's not just about fishing.
I think it's a false dichotomy to just pit MPAs against fishing. MPAs are one of the tools to support sustainable fisheries and healthy ocean ecosystems. It's a much broader mandate than just fisheries.
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Callum Roberts
Historically, fishing has been one of the major drivers of the decline we are now seeking to address.
10:35 a.m.
Prof. Isabelle Côté
Yes, I agree that fishing along with climate change, I guess, are the major threats to marine life, but marine protected areas are about more than just addressing fishing.
10:40 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Right. I think the goal here is that we're actually trying to ensure that the fishing industry survives and carries on.
Finally, this committee has heard from previous witnesses that in fact MPAs don't work. There's some reference to MPAs in the Gulf of Mexico, for instance, that they haven't worked.
I'm just wondering if all three would like to weigh in on that comment.
10:40 a.m.
Prof. Boris Worm
Some MPAs work; others don't work. There was the study that Dr. Côté referenced about the five criteria that make MPAs successful and the follow-up study that I referenced—and will send around—about the importance of staffing and funding. If you take those two studies together, you understand very comprehensively, globally, what makes some areas work and others not work.
I don't think there is any clear evidence that MPAs can cause damage for the entities they try to protect, but sometimes they're just ineffective. We know exactly why they can be ineffective and we know how to address it. We can learn in Canada from the mistakes other nations have made and do something that's strong and robust here.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you.
To our guests, before we go, there have been a couple of requests for very quick questions.
Please be very quick, folks.
Ms. Jordan, you have a very quick question, I believe.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
My question is for Dr. Côté. It's with regard to some of the testimony we heard in the past with regard to the definition of an MPA from IUCN and FAO. A lot of people feel that if we'd moved to the definition of an MPA used by FAO, we'd probably already be where we need to be.
Can you comment on that, please?
10:40 a.m.
Prof. Isabelle Côté
I'm not completely familiar with the definitions of FAO, but I know there's a strong push in the conservation community to move toward the IUCN definitions and to have an IUCN category for each of our own MPAs.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you.
To Dr. Worm, Canada has a unique marine landscape. Geographically we're very diverse. Socio-economically we're very diverse. We hear of a lot of examples being applied in the EU. Do you believe it's fair for others to unilaterally apply the same guidelines to those areas in Canada?
10:40 a.m.
Prof. Boris Worm
No. I think Canada has its own process. It has designated a process for implementing MPAs that's made in Canada. It's based on Canadian values and Canadian particularities—the strong aboriginal voice, for example—and the particular aspects of the fishing industry here. I believe there has been a lot of time to hone the process. Now we just have to fulfill those goals that we committed to, using the very process we devised here locally in Canada.