Fisheries Committee on Oct. 31st, 2017

[Clyde MacLellan]

I think that over that period of time, progress had been made on some recommendations, but by the time we did the audit in 2017, progress had fallen back. I think on some there had not really been any substantive progress, and some of the things we found were new. We hadn't found them previously. It's very hard to characterize all in one simple response that nothing had been done from 2005 to 2017.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Was it the same problem, though? Was it the same ongoing issue over those years, or were there new things every time?

[Clyde MacLellan]

No, some of them are recurring issues. For example, yield and measures of efficiency and productivity have been things for which there's been slow, if any, progress, and that has continued. Very clearly, we're comfortable saying that some of the issues we found with regard to hiring, purchases of equipment, and following of policies were all new. We had not encountered those types of issues in the past.

[Heather McManaman]

In 2010 we raised an issue with procurement, and we found that the corporation had in fact adopted and approved a procurement policy. It was generally followed, but we found instances where it was overridden.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Was there a new management structure in that time frame? The chair of the board, you said, had just hired people.

[Heather McManaman]

President.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

President, sorry. Was he new since the 2010 procurement policy was put in place, or was he part of that?

[Heather McManaman]

He was new.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes, please.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Just to follow up on the last question Ms. Jordan asked, how long has the existing president and CEO been in place?

[Clyde MacLellan]

The existing interim CEO who's in today has been appointed since when, Heather?

[Heather McManaman]

The current interim president has been there since February or March 2017, I believe.

[Clyde MacLellan]

In terms of the question that has been asked previously, what's probably quite relevant is, where is the president who was in place at the time we were doing much of the work we're doing today?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Correct.

[Clyde MacLellan]

That president was dismissed, with cause, by the government, right around the time we completed the audit.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation is a crown corporation, and there's a certain amount of accountability that crown corporations have to the Government of Canada. Is that correct?

[Clyde MacLellan]

That is correct.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

This corporation has, time and again, skirted its accountability to the Government of Canada.

[Clyde MacLellan]

They have failed to fulfill the responsibilities that have been outlined for them under the various laws and regulations, yes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay. How many audits have you done where there have been this many deficiencies in a crown corporation?

[Clyde MacLellan]

I don't have a precise number for you, but for the purposes of the question you've asked, very few.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

There seems to be a problem with the legislation, the Freshwater Fish Marketing Act, in that the president is also a member of the board. This goes to accountability. Is this a normal practice of a crown corporation?

[Clyde MacLellan]

There is other legislation governing other crown corporations that still have CEOs as members of their boards, so yes, in terms of governance practices more broadly, you are likely all aware that it has become an issue. It's often said that there should be separation between the CEO and the board for purposes of good governance. That practice isn't universally within the legislation of crown corporations, so this is not that unusual as it relates to crowns, but it creates certain problems.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Would you say it's an anomaly that you've had a corporation that has had a number of audits over successive periods where deficiencies have been found, yet little has been done in terms of the accountability?