Evidence of meeting #75 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, folks. That concludes supplementary estimates.
Mr. Doherty.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I would like to seek unanimous consent to get a group picture of all committee members present today, along with our special guests, but I guess that won't happen now, but from Big Brothers Big Sisters at the close of this meeting.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Hello, everyone. Welcome back.
Just as a reminder, I need five minutes of your time at the very end to go in camera about some very important things. I just have a couple of questions to ask, and it won't take more than five minutes, which means that an hour from now, we should be done. I know some of us have committee afterwards.
A very special welcome to our guests. First of all, raise your hand if you can hear me, for those joining us by video conference. As I say your name, could you please raise your hand.
I have the executive director of the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, Mr. Ian MacPherson. We also have the president of the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, Melanie Griffin. Is that correct?
Melanie Giffin Representative, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I'm the quality and program industry coordinator.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
I'm sorry. We originally had Robert Jenkins as the president. I apologize, that is my mistake. Thank you for the correction, Ms. Giffin. I appreciate that.
We have, from the P.E.I. Shellfish Association, the president, Kenneth Arsenault.
As you know, we have with us two organizations. We're going to be providing you up to 10 minutes each. If you don't want to use your full 10 minutes, that's fine. After, we'll have a round of questioning, so if you don't get to your points, the questioning will start after, and maybe you can get your points in then.
In the meantime, I'm going to start with Mr. Arsenault.
President, P.E.I. Shellfish Association
I was told at the last minute, and I didn't have time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
That's fine. This is the first part of our meeting, and some of the questions may be coming your way, so you can discuss that then.
In the meantime, we have the P.E.I. Fishermen's Association.
Would you like to have a presentation for up to 10 minutes?
Ian MacPherson Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Yes, we would.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Thank you, Chairman Simms.
The Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association once again welcomes the opportunity to present to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
My name is Ian MacPherson, and I am the executive director of PEIFA. Our president, Bobby Jenkins, was unable to attend this morning. He sends his regrets. I am joined, though, by Melanie Giffin, our PEIFA staff member who is handling the marine protected area file. Melanie is a lobster biologist and also has extensive knowledge regarding other marine species.
With all due respect to the committee, I would like to request that, in future, more lead time be provided to our organization when requesting a presentation to the committee. We were invited this past Friday afternoon to present this morning. There are many important files occurring in the fishery at present, and we have a keen desire to make our presentation as complete and informative as possible. We thank you for your consideration of our request.
The PEIFA represents 1,280 independent owner-operators who participate in our local fishery. Each of our captains has a sizable investment in equipment, training, and sweat equity to make their fleet successful. Therefore, very few people connected with the fishery have a bigger personal investment at risk should our fisheries not remain viable and sustainable. As a side note, we would like to commend Minister LeBlanc and this committee for supporting the strengthening of the owner-operator and fleet separation policies at this critical time.
The harvesters of Prince Edward Island have supported many conservation and gear reduction initiatives and the Marine Stewardship Council certification of our lobster fishery. These efforts are assisting in keeping our fisheries viable for Canadian generations to come. Therefore, when we speak of our concerns with the marine protected area and Bill C-55, we are speaking from the perspective of making our fisheries better. Recent announcements have confirmed that Canada has met the 5% target on MPAs with a further 5% being targeted by 2020. We know that these areas will be national in scope, and for the most part the Gulf of St. Lawrence, which is our fishing area, has not been significantly impacted at this time. However, several areas are under consideration. Our concerns rest with a number of unanswered questions regarding the MPA program, how the process is being conducted, and the lack of new information.
In terms of some proposed changes outlined in Bill C-55, the PEIFA has been a strong advocate of enforcing the rules and regulations around the fishery and setting sufficient deterrents to prevent future abuses. There have been cases in the past when fines have been viewed more as a cost of doing business rather than the deterrent they are supposed to be. The PEIFA is not in a position to comment on the amounts of fines that are stipulated in the offences and punishments section of the national strategy, proposed sections 39.6 to 39.92. We do, however, support updating and strengthening the powers of enforcement officers as outlined.
We are supportive of a review process that will assess whether an MPA is achieving some, or any, of its intended targets after five years. We support the suggestion that compensation may be provided to an interest owner should their activity be discontinued because of the marine protected area designation.
The PEIFA continues to have numerous concerns around the proposed oil and gas development known as Old Harry in the waters off Newfoundland and Quebec in the Magdalen Islands. We find it contradictory that we can be discussing MPAs in one area of the gulf, and oil and gas development in the same general vicinity. As we understand it now, you can have a limited fishing zone in a designated MPA area, yet oil and gas development may be allowed. This is a troubling example. The continued granting of exploration permits for this area and the suggestion that a rigorous environmental assessment will ensure safe exploration are also troubling to the harvesters in the gulf. This suggests that this type of development is a fait accompli. MPAs and oil and gas development do not mix. Bill C-55 should reflect this.
The PEIFA has specific questions on MPAs that require answers or clarification.
One, we understand that some areas may be shut down with exemptions. What does that mean, and how will it work?
Two, if an MPA is declared but target results are not achieved, how will this be assessed? How often will MPAs be reviewed?
Three, is there a possibility that some protected species will be identified and others can be added after an MPA opening? Will there be additional consultation if this happens?
Four, is the Governor in Council able to make decisions separate from the minister? Why is this role being expanded?
At present there are two newsletters per year being produced with updates on the MPA process. We find this to be too little information, too infrequently.
We would like to have language added to the proposed changes which stipulates that more industry consultation take place before an MPA is designated. We are keenly aware that the federal Ministry of Fisheries has had and continues to have ultimate discretion in making decisions involving the Canadian fishery.
The PEIFA is advocating for a process that is transparent and more inclusive of the experts who make their living from the ocean. This is a serious, long-lasting process that requires a high degree of dialogue and true consultation. Recent issues with whale mortality in the Gulf of St. Lawrence underscore that the ocean is a fast-changing environment. We must also have a process that addresses these changes while not severely limiting the ability of our harvesters to supply food for Canada and beyond.
We ask the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans to take our input into consideration when drafting changes to Bill C-55.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you very much.
Now we will go to questioning, with Mr. Morrissey from the government side for seven minutes, please.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
Good morning, everyone from Prince Edward Island.
Ian, my first question is for you. Could you give me an example of a consultation that your organization would have had on changes to the Fisheries Act in the past?
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
We have done submissions and met the timelines that were laid out. We've done two written submissions on the Fisheries Act, but generally, most of the dialogue has been through emails notifying us of the upcoming proposed changes and going on the website and giving the government feedback on those areas.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Is that in relation to the current act we're discussing, or are you referencing changes from a number of years ago? I want to get a sense of what you would view as an acceptable level of consultation between government and your organization, which you point out is the largest on Prince Edward Island, on legislation that would impact your clients, who are your fishers.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
It is important to get the stakeholder groups together around the table to have an overview of what those proposed changes are.
We're dealing with three things. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but there are proposed changes that have been on the table for the Fisheries Act. Today we're talking about changes to the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and the Oceans Act, so it sometimes does get quite confusing for our groups, but we are diligent in looking at those changes and submitting feedback.
As an example, the first proposed changes to the act were generally around inland waters, which would involve us to a lesser degree, but we still did respond to those changes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Ian, could you enlighten me? Have sister organizations in the Gulf of St. Lawrence region taken the same position as it relates to exploratory permits for oil and gas drilling ?
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
We're probably going back six or seven years, but certainly there was an extensive conference over the Magdalen Islands that a number of fishing groups attended. Part of why you might not know of our current position has been that the process has been delayed quite a bit in terms of the permit process that Corridor Resources was seeking, but it seems to be back on the table. The permit has been extended and I believe they've asked for a delay in coming out with some of the parameters for the environmental assessment, but they are still intending to go that route of drilling an exploratory well.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I have a question for Ms. Giffin, who's a lobster scientist.
Can you give an opinion to this committee on the impact the lobster fishery or crab fishery would have on the ecosystem or the natural environment of the gulf where it's fished from a gear perspective? Can you give us an opinion on whether you feel that has a negative or a neutral impact?