Evidence of meeting #76 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
How many meetings would you say you've attended, not only for St. Anns Bank but for our MPA process and Bill C-55? I know that we've been doing this study for months, which we should be, because it's the right thing, but you are very involved, correct?
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Yes, and in answer to your question, it was over a time period of about a decade, because we also sit on the Gully advisory committee, and, if you include marine planning and the eastern Scotian Shelf integrated management plan, which I include in the marine protected area work because of the network plan coming out of that, I would probably say over 100 meetings over 10 years.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Sometimes you have a bunch of meetings, but between 75 and 100.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Manning, how many meetings have you been in regarding MPAs and Bill C-55?
President, Chamber of Shipping
I don't have a number for you. It wouldn't be as many as Dr. Fuller, but it would be dozens, and it's growing. I'm doing that because I see the Oceans Act becoming the main management tool for our coastlines, and that's a big change for my sector.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Would you say that industry has been afforded the same opportunity to be at the table as much as, say, Dr. Fuller has?
President, Chamber of Shipping
I think probably yes, but we're learning as well, so as we learn, we get more involved.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I appreciate that comment, because we're hearing, through Ms. Jordan's questioning, and Dr. Fuller has mentioned it as well, that stakeholders and those who are on the ground, those who make their living from the ocean and our waterways and depend on them, feel that they haven't been adequately consulted.
I don't know if it's after five meetings, 10 meetings, or 100 meetings that you get that, but, for those people on the ground, would you not agree that they most likely are the ones who care about the ocean the most? They're there. They make their livelihoods from that, and they should be involved, and if there are concerns, until they get some assurances that their concerns are going to be taken....
We need to get this right.
President, Chamber of Shipping
There's no question we need to get it right, and Dr. Fuller had a very good point. There are different levels of awareness for different communities.
I'm fortunate. I have the ability to understand and know what's going on, so if it's not happening, I can provoke it. There are certain stakeholders who probably don't have that luxury and are at a disadvantage.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I'm a coach. I do a lot of volunteer work back in my community, and I always say that our team is only as strong as our weakest member.
If we have folks around the table who do not understand what this is going to mean to them, we should be doing everything in our power to get them to fully understand how this can impact them.
Would both of you agree with that?
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Dr. Fuller.
Mr. Manning, there was a statement that came out from you in May of this year about the tanker moratorium that was announced by the government:
...we do not support the moratorium announced today. Firstly, it contradicts a crucial pillar of the federal government's stated approach to environmental protection: evidence-based decision making. It also flies in the face of the OPP, which commits to focusing resources on determining and addressing real safety and environmental risks identified through scientific research.
In this article, you very clearly articulate your industry's concerns about that process. I'm wondering if you feel that you have been consulted enough on this. Obviously, you have some clear concerns, and we share them with you. We need to get this right out of the hopper. Correct?
President, Chamber of Shipping
That's correct.
I think your question was directed at Bill C-55, if I'm correct.
November 9th, 2017 / 9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
A little bit of both. You have concerns over the moratorium, because we're hearing the same concerns on Bill C-55 and the MPA process as well.
President, Chamber of Shipping
I testified on the moratorium last week, so that is certainly available to the committee.
On Bill C-55, I don't think the consultation was as robust as it could have or should have been. I think there needed to be some more intergovernmental work, which would be a strong message. And that's not to be critical to departments; it's that with the amount of work that's going on at the moment, we could be making mistakes.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I think you've said one hundred per cent. I think you said earlier that this is much bigger than what we actually see. It's going to have far-reaching impacts, and not just in the immediate future, but down the road, correct?
President, Chamber of Shipping
There's a reason that I'm here personally today, because it is that important.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I guess our point is this. We've always said that we want to make sure we're getting this right as we go, but we don't know why this has to be rushed through. Has there been any indication to you as to why the government is actually pushing this legislation through without getting you here to fully discuss this?
President, Chamber of Shipping
There's been no indication. It would be completely speculative on my part to give you a reason.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Okay.
You're familiar with the precautionary principle.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
One of your concerns was about the vagueness of the legislation and that it gives the ministers some pretty overarching powers of authority to designate marine protected areas, or interim protected areas, without proof of evidence-based science that would lead to that. Do you agree that's a concern?
President, Chamber of Shipping
I think there are two things there, if I could break them down. The precautionary principle is fully supported, and we're never going to have perfect science. So—