Fisheries Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

This particular fisherman will be a witness here at committee as well, so he'll be able to enlighten the committee on why he couldn't do it.

With regard to vessel regulations, this same fisherman has a family enterprise. They have to have three vessels because they have six quotas. They can only fish two quotas on each vessel. Why would a vessel be limited to the number of quotas it can fish on a particular vessel? It was just last week I spoke to him. He said it's crazy. He has to use one boat to catch two quotas, another vessel to catch two quotas, and another.... They have to have three boats to catch their quota. Their quota is their quota, so why such strict regulations that are putting an onerous and financial burden on people who are involved in the fishery?

[Jacqueline Perry]

I believe you're talking about crab.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Perry]

The structure of the crab fishery is that we do have arrangements where there are combined enterprises where you have more than one individual quota associated with a particular enterprise. We also have buddied-up arrangements where harvesters can work together. The particular circumstances around the enterprise, the fishing operation you're describing right now, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to explain them. I'm not familiar with the details of it or the particular configuration of that enterprise.

It sounds to me like you're dealing with a family arrangement where you have in fact multiple enterprises operating as opposed to one enterprise with multiple boats. That's typically not the way harvesting enterprises are structured. I believe there's a nuance there in that particular circumstance that doesn't represent the typical enterprise operation.

[Ken McDonald, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

He did say it was just one family enterprise, but we'll ask him when he comes as a witness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm being fairly generous today, by the way, not just to you, but to everybody. I'm rather flexible in the timing.

Mr. Miller, five minutes, please.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses.

It's not always that Mr. McDonald and I agree, but listening to this ridiculousness makes me shake my head. I don't blame you for being frustrated on behalf of your fishermen.

I have many questions here.

You say, Ms. Perry, that the rules have evolved over 40 years. Why haven't they evolved in a manner that obviously makes a little more sense and is more beneficial? I'm trying to get my head around this vessel-length restriction.

Mr. McDonald is 110% correct. If you're going to give me a licence, I can only fish that licence. I don't fish commercially, but I do fish. If the limit is five salmon, I catch five salmon, or less on most days. However, I can catch up to that. It's the same thing when I go deer hunting. I can shoot one deer. I can bring a pickup truck to take that deer home, or I can bring my ATV. It doesn't matter the size of my vehicle. This, to me, makes zero sense. Unless somebody can comment as to the reason—and none of you have so far—I shake my head.

There's talk here about the bureaucracy in DFO and Transport Canada. I've heard that so many times in my 13 and a half years in this place that I'm convinced that, for both of them, it's nothing more than protecting their empire. They don't want to work together for the benefit of the little guy, and that's what this is about, benefiting the little guy.

My first question is this. He talked about Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, and the rules are not universal. Are these vessel-length rules applicable on the west coast, in the Arctic?

[Some hon. members]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Miller, can I stop you for a moment? I'd like to ask all colleagues to please be respectful of who has the floor. Thank you very much.

Mr. Miller, please proceed.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I hope I didn't lose time there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

You did not, sir.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Are these rules the same in the Arctic or on the west coast, yes or no?

[Mark Waddell]

There are vessel-length rules across the country, in all our fisheries. We strive for consistency, but not for the sake of consistency. We're developing.... I see your eyebrows furrowing on that.

We strive for consistency, but based on consultations with industry and with fleet segments. We work with them to find an economically viable model that will support the industry.

My understanding in preparing for today was that this was going to be focused more on the Atlantic, so I'm not quite as familiar as I perhaps need to be on the Pacific side.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

All I asked was whether it's universal all over the country.

[Mark Waddell]

There are vessel-length restrictions in all fisheries in Canada.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

In all regions.

I can tell you that there aren't in Georgian Bay and Lake Huron. All I have left there are aboriginal fishers, and they've pretty well destroyed the fishery. They can fish with a 16-foot or 18-foot open boat, or they can fish with a 35-foot or 40-foot tug, which there are a bunch of.

[Mark Waddell]

Inland fisheries—

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Either way, they've destroyed it, so you can't tell me that those vessel lengths are in place there. Either that or they're breaking the law, which leads me to the next thing. This is something that the government can deal with—Mr. McDonald and the rest of you.

If somebody from the Conne River reserve can bring their boat back the next day, yet somebody who lives outside the reserve can't, that's a double standard. It's the same thing in Ontario. We have to give our native communities a job opportunity, an economic opportunity, but it has to be on the same footing as everyone else, or it's a double standard, and I'll never get my head around that.

My next question is about unions, and I think I understood Mr. McDonald. Why or how do unions have any iota of say on vessel length? Can somebody answer that?

[Jacqueline Perry]

In the Newfoundland and Labrador context—Mr. McDonald is absolutely right—we have an organization called the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union, who have been the certified bargaining agent of inshore commercial fishermen for many years. They do not have the only say—far from it. We engage with harvesters directly. They, of course, bring a perspective to the table. It is their organization—

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

The unions do...?

[Jacqueline Perry]

The Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union in Newfoundland and Labrador is the certified bargaining agent.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Can you tell me what they might bring to the table?

[Jacqueline Perry]

They provide a structure, through their committees and harvester representatives, to engage with the department during our consultation processes. That's one forum in which we—

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay. I could come to the table, Ms. Perry, with all due respect. I have nothing to add to the fishery, because I don't know much about it. My point is, why are the unions allowed at the table? What do they bring? In my opinion, they don't bring anything. It should be the fishermen, the processors, and that kind of thing.

Anyway, I'll move on from there to my last question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm sorry, Mr. Miller—