Fisheries Committee on Aug. 11th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 14 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, May 26, 2020, Standing Order 108(2), and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, February 25, 2020, the committee is resuming its study of the state of Pacific salmon.

Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings are public and are made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

Regular members know this by now, but as reminder, and for the benefit of our witnesses who are participating in a House of Commons virtual committee meeting for the first time, I should remind you of a few rules.

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I would now like to welcome our witnesses today.

With us, we have Alexandra Morton, independent biologist, Pacific Coast Wild Salmon Society. We have Ken Pearce, from the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society. We have Dustin Snyder, director, stock rebuilding programs, with the Spruce City Wildlife Association.

As well, we have somebody appearing as a witness who we're used to seeing sit at the other side of the table and for whom I'm sure we all have the most utmost respect. Fin Donnelly is chair of the Rivershed Society of British Columbia.

Of course, joining us today from the Green Party, we have Ms. May, member of Parliament for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

It's great to see you as well, Ms. May. Again, I'm sure you have all of our highest respect.

We'll get started now.

Ms. Morton, you have six minutes or less, please.

[Alexandra Morton, Independent Biologist, Pacific Coast Wild Salmon Society, As an Individual]

I'm speaking to you from 'Namgis territory, here on the Fraser sockeye migration route, and I want to start by saying that I'm grateful for the Government of Canada's response to COVID-19. There is no other country I would rather be in right now.

For the moment, policy is keeping pace with emerging science on an emerging virus. However, this not the case when it comes to salmon runs of national importance. If fishing were the dominant extinction driver for salmon runs, the fact that most salmon fisheries have been increasingly closed over the last few years would have caused the salmon runs to increase. As well, in one of the most heavily farmed regions of the coast, the Broughton Archipelago, wild salmon are declining in the unlogged and logged watersheds.

For some reason, the Canadian government is ignoring critical warnings that salmon farms are harming wild salmon runs. These are coming from the Auditor General's office; Dr. Mona Nemer, the chief science adviser of Canada; and Stephen Harper's Cohen commission, which recommended that salmon farms be prohibited from the Discovery Islands unless Minister Bernadette Jordan can demonstrate, by September 30 of this year, that the risk from the farms is minimal. However, this is not going to be possible for her.

Last fall, then minister of fisheries, Jonathan Wilkinson, announced that the 2019 sockeye return was the lowest in the history of this country; yet on March 1 of this year, DFO granted salmon farms permission to have an unlimited number of sea lice. Predictably, 99% of the young Fraser sockeye on the migration route were infected with sea lice levels that we know will reduce their survival. Wild salmon are simply not making it to sea past the salmon farms.

On July 30, we found out the sockeye trying to go by Port Hardy were infected with an average of 42 lice per fish. These fish are 10 centimetres long, with 42 lice. If this continues, there will be nothing you can do to boost their survival. You have to deal with the salmon farming issue. The sockeye infected with sea lice this year are the dominant cycle. This is the fish the Fraser River nations and commercial fisheries depend on, and we will know the outcome of this infection in 2022.

Then there's the situation with the piscine orthoreovirus, or PRV. One DFO lab says this virus is natural to British Columbia, it's low risk and not to worry about it, but another DFO lab is saying it's a significant risk to Pacific salmon. Academic research is saying that it is not natural to the B.C. coast, as it's from the Atlantic. My research is saying this virus is spreading.

In 2018, Washington state prohibited PRV-infected farmed salmon because they are too big a risk to wild salmon. As a result, the farms in Washington state are standing empty because there are no clean fish for companies to access to put into the pens. Here in B.C., the industry told the Federal Court of Canada that it would be significantly impacted if it was not allowed to farm with PRV-infected salmon, so DFO policy has decided that the virus is natural and low risk. If you don't see a scandal here, it's because you're not looking.

Salmon farms are the greatest single impact on wild salmon since the glaciers, and this impact is entirely removable. The one place on this coast where sea lice are going down is the Broughton Archipelago, where first nations have removed several million farmed Atlantic salmon.

Here are my recommendations to you. You should create a Pacific region director of wild salmon. We need somebody at a senior management level in DFO whose whole life is focusing on restoring wild salmon, and this must be done in partnership with first nations. You should mandate the removal of salmon farms from the ocean, beginning with the biggest migration routes. This would attract significant land-based investment because the infrastructure for this industry is already there.

Also, please harness the remarkable science in DFO that can read the immune system of fish, allowing the fish to talk to us, to tell us where and how we are hurting them, and whether we are making that better or worse. Then the fish themselves will guide their own restoration.

If Canada follows this path, truly meaningful reconciliation begins. We jump right into the fight against climate change by significantly increasing the annual growth in forests and every fishing country in the world will come to Canada to learn how we did this.

Thank you so much for allowing me to be here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Pearce for six minutes or less.

[Ken Pearce, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society]

First, thank you very much for having me on. I consider this an honour to represent over 300,000 British Columbians who are very concerned with the rapid decline in our salmon stocks. My focus is the decline in chinook, coho and steelhead. All the studies that I've been using are based on the Gulf of Georgia and the Salish Sea.

My background is that I commercially fished from 1962 to 1967, longline halibut and seined salmon, on one of the top boats of the coast at the time. My venture paid my way through UBC. I'm an avid sports fisherman, having fished most rivers in B.C. for both salmon and steelhead, and I'm very active in both fresh and saltwater sports fishing. My grandsons are the fourth generation involved in sports fishing. My son seined on the Queens Reach, one of the top boats on the coast, for nine years and is now working for DFO Nanaimo under Wilf Luedke.

For 40 years our family has had a hunting shack on Canoe Pass at the mouth of the Fraser River, and we're very tuned in to what is happening to the lower Fraser.

Let's go on to the focus of the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society, which is pinnipeds on the British Columbia coast and their impact on the outbound juvenile chinook, coho and steelhead smolts and inbound adults. Our mission is restoring the balance of pinnipeds to help bring back our salmon.

Our supporting science, number one, is Brandon Chasco and all of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA. There's also our Pacific Salmon Foundation and their Salish Sea marine survival project. Dr. Carl Walters of UBC is a very strong supporter of our group, as is Ben Nelson of UBC.

I'm also quoting articles published in the Columbia Basin Bulletin and data from Peter Olesiuk, retired DFO, who did all the counts on the pinnipeds and our integrated fisheries management plan, IFMP. It is too long to go over here; that was presented to DFO some two and a half years ago to deal with this problem, and we're making very little progress inside DFO.

I want to say special thanks to Mel Arnold for getting involved in this. He's been a great help in getting us to move along.

For those who aren't dialled in, I'm going to just quickly go over some stats here on the pinnipeds, and these come from Peter Olesiuk's publications. Seal population at the start of protection under the Marine Mammals Protection Act in 1972—and this is all related to the Gulf of Georgia—was 7,000. The current population is 48,000. Steller sea lions in 1972 were approximately 10,000 and, coast-wide now, there are 48,000. As for California seals, I have an estimate only as there are no detailed studies available, and that is 20,000.

Smolt consumption by pinnipeds is our main focus. Consumption, as stated by the Pacific Salmon Foundation's Salish Sea marine survival project, is 30% to 45% of smolts, lower for chinook and higher for coho. Chasco of NOAA and King Salmon Forever studies show up to 80% consumption of chinook smolts. These studies show a consumption rate of approximately 27 million chinook smolts per year and 10 million coho smolts per year. No data is available on steelhead outbound smolts, although the stock has extremely depleted in the last 15 years and, as witnessed by the Thompson and Chilcotin runs, the run is almost annihilated.

If this consumption was cut by 50%, and using historical long-term survival rates of adults of 3% to 5%, which is currently 1% with the huge pinniped populations, what might this mean for helping restore our chinook and coho populations? As an example, I used an average of the above studies and used a consumption rate of 60%.

The math shows the following: 27 million chinook smolts, times 60%, equals 16,200,000 more survivors, times the 3% survival adults, is 486,000 more chinook adults, which is for the Gulf of Georgia system only.

Applying the same math to the 10 million outbound coho smolts per year is a return of 300,000 more adults.

Regarding adult consumption of chinook, the only current studies I could find were published by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. The results are the following: three to five returning adults are eaten per day on the Columbia River. With up to 5,000 sea lions on the Columbia, this adds up to 15,000 to 25,000 adults per day.

I can't find any studies on in-river consumption on the Fraser River for either seals or sea lions, but my guesstimate on adult consumption by seals in the Fraser might go as follows: 5,000 in-river seals times two chinook per week equals 10,000 per week.

The same logic would apply to both coho and steelhead adults in river.

I'm just quickly going to bring to light some additional studies supporting this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Pearce. Your time has gone well over the six-minute mark.

If your speaking notes were provided to the chair, I'm sure we'll all have access to them. Anything that didn't come out hopefully will come out in the questioning in a few minutes, so I thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Snyder for six minutes or less, please.

[Dustin Snyder, Director, Stock Rebuilding Programs, Spruce City Wildlife Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Today I will be speaking about the state of salmon in B.C. using my experience with the upper and middle Fraser spring and summer chinook. Unfortunately, I'm here to tell you today that this is not a new problem. The residents of the upper Fraser have been watching salmon populations fade into memory for close to two decades.

Salmon populations that triggered the Cohen commission, COSEWIC assessments and the wild salmon policy have seen continued decline. The department has all but vacated our area leaving us with old science, a lack of data, and a lack of staff and resources. This has resulted in a lack of salmon that many in the department are oblivious to.

Oddly, the Big Bar landslide has become a bittersweet situation. While the slide has put another nail in the coffin of upper Fraser stocks, the upside is there is now a conversation happening. Paired with the closure of chinook fishing in many coastal communities, the rest of the province and the department at large are now noticing what the locals here have been saying for years: Salmon are disappearing.

The department, first nations, the province and community need to work together to move forward on this. No one organization will be able to do it alone. This is a complex issue. There's no silver bullet. Salmon are disappearing due to a “death by a thousand cuts” situation.

Long-term commitments will need to be made with a recovery plan and conservation targets in place or else we will see populations disappear. I will also note that some populations in the upper Fraser have already disappeared. Unfortunately, in some cases these populations were only known to exist by certain people, and they were in very small numbers. Now they're gone. If they were genetically unique, or special in some way, we will never know.

I'd like to touch on what is referred to as the “three Hs”: harvest, habitat and hatcheries. While we know that harvest has been reduced in an effort to help these stocks, many reports state that these endangered and threatened stocks in the upper Fraser show a trend that would continue to decline even in the absence of harvest. Coded wire tag data here is 20-plus years old and is known to be incomplete and not meet the requirements of an indicator stock, yet is still currently used to make decisions. Genetic information on the upper Fraser is also lacking and needs to be refreshed. Lastly on this point, upper Fraser residents have not seen an opportunity to take part in fisheries for well over a decade. Our local first nations folks see little to no harvest many years. Despite that, there is recreational harvest in the marine environment, and first nations harvest taking place on the lower Fraser on these very stocks.

Habitat is a tricky one. While the province runs the land base, the feds manage the fish. Habitat will need collaboration. In the upper Fraser, there are many areas where little to no habitat work is needed. However, these areas are vulnerable to riparian degradation. After an area's timber is harvested, or a forest fire goes through, there is no provincial strategy to grow a healthy, resilient forest that could not only provide a strong economic future but help us meet these conservation targets as well. This conversation needs to happen with everybody at the table. Even agriculture can have a large impact on the health of riparian areas.

Lastly, on hatcheries, the kinds needed for stock rebuilding are not your run of the mill, “pump out a ton of fish” hatcheries. I'm talking about conservation hatcheries that are using strategic enhancement models, including releases at multiple life stages. A knee-jerk reaction to pump out as many fish as possible, like the proposed and cancelled Willow River facility, is no longer the answer.

Building a massive hatchery in the upper Fraser is no longer going to make financial or practical sense. Stocks are so low that I believe we would need multiple small facilities. With DFO investment and advice, community and first nations partners would be able to move the facilities forward and leverage additional funding to increase these programs.

I can provide some recent numbers and a quick example as to why a large facility would no longer work. When the Willow River facility was cancelled, the Holmes River would see returns of over 4,000 chinook. It has only surpassed 2,000 chinook twice since 2003, with returns as low as 200. That was previous to Big Bar. Last year, due to Big Bar, this river has seen fewer than 30 fish return. The Chilako once held over 1,000 chinook, and in recent years has struggled to hit double digits, with a record return of 12 last year. Lastly, the Endako River, which Spruce City Wildlife and Carrier Sekani Tribal Council are partnering on to rebuild, had a habitat assessment that states it could sustain over 1,000 returning spawners, yet has averaged 30 in the last five years. Major facilities cannot operate on these small numbers. It's too late for that action.

Of course, Big Bar has again decimated these already vulnerable stocks. Climate change is altering the flows of our rivers, the water quality, the water quantity and the water temperature. Fires have removed large areas of forests needed to stop sediment and soak up rainwater and snowmelt. Better and more consistent monitoring of these situations is going to be needed or else we will see another Big Bar situation in the future, where again it will go unnoticed and again the stocks will suffer.

Current monitoring of stocks consists of counting the fish in some streams and charting the decline. This is a great model to manage to extinction. I will note that it's not too late to rebuild, to update the science and to make these changes to help these fish thrive, but we need to work with the fish and together, not against them and not against each other. Every year wasted will make this issue more difficult and very much more expensive.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank you all to present today as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Snyder.

We will now go to Mr. Donnelly, for six minutes or less.

[Fin Donnelly, Chair of the Board, Rivershed Society of British Columbia]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to present to the standing committee regarding the state of Pacific salmon. My name is Fin Donnelly. Iyim Yewyews is my Squamish name. I'm the chair of the board of a non-profit charity called the Rivershed Society of British Columbia, which I founded in 1996 after my first swim down the 1,375-kilometre length of the Fraser River, one of the greatest salmon rivers in the world.

The Fraser is a Canadian and B.C. heritage river, one of North America's most diverse watersheds, covering 10 of B.C.'s 14 biogeoclimatic zones, and is home to one-quarter of British Columbians. It fuels two-thirds of B.C.'s economy and is known as the heart and soul of British Columbia.

We have a vision of the Fraser watershed being the most resilient watershed on the planet with salmon, people and economies flourishing in river shed communities. Our mission is to conserve, protect and restore the Fraser's 34 river sheds. We call it watershed CPR—conserve, protect and restore.

We can't have healthy salmon and salmon runs if we don't have healthy watersheds. Currently the Fraser is threatened by cumulative impacts: a changing climate; over-consumption of resources; habitat destruction from urban development and resource extraction; loss of biodiversity; excess pollution; lack of regulation, monitoring and enforcement; reduced funding for watershed CPR; and impacts from open-net salmon farms.

Lack of government action on watershed CPR has left Fraser River salmon on life-support. We believe the federal government must take bold action and invest in watershed CPR now. It must work with the B.C. government, indigenous governments, scientists and academics, conservation organizations like ours, fishermen and labour groups, coastal communities and others to conserve, protect and restore salmon habitat.

I would like to recognize and thank the minister for taking action on the devastating landslide at Big Bar and making it a priority. I would also like to thank the federal government for providing the necessary resources to address the emergency at Big Bar. However, key issues remain if the downward trend of wild Pacific salmon returns is to be reversed.

The federal government must commit to bold action now before it's too late. The dire situation facing west coast wild salmon is nothing new. I remember back in 2009 when fewer than 600,000 sockeye returned after the government predicted between two and four million.

Here we are, more than a decade later. You just heard from officials. They admitted Fraser chinook and steelhead are of grave concern, and they are not expecting 2020 to be a big year for fisheries. Last year while everyone was focused on Big Bar, we had the worst return of Fraser sockeye in recorded history.

It's clear that past federal governments have failed wild Pacific salmon. At least five major commissions have been struck over the past 30 years looking at the demise or impacts to west coast wild salmon with the latest being the $35-million Cohen commission, which produced 75 recommendations, with many of the tough recommendations still not fully or properly implemented.

Some witnesses have asserted the department is broken. While I won't weigh in on that, I will say the department is a reflection of political will and leadership. Members of this committee are well aware of the problems facing west coast wild salmon, and I bet you could all agree on most of the needed solutions. Do you have the political courage to make the tough recommendations needed in your report and, as respective members of Parliament and members of different parties, can you come together to ensure the government implements them?

Members, you have heard enough testimony from witnesses to clearly recommend the action government needs to take to address the problems facing west coast wild salmon. Witnesses have pointed out the political arm of the government needs to give the bureaucratic arm a fighting chance with bold leadership, resources and support.

One witness clearly stated the government needs to take action, and he clearly identified a known framework, as you've just heard, for harvest, habitat and hatcheries. First, we should support science-based conservation-oriented harvest levels; act on illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing; and investigate what is taking place in international waters with regard to our Canadian wild Pacific salmon. Second, we should make a bold investment in habitat restoration and protection. BCSRIF, the coastal restoration fund and other programs are a good start, but they are inadequate for solving the problem. Third, we should address issues associated with industrial hatcheries and open-net salmon farms, and immediately transition to safe and efficient land-based closed containment.

The RSBC supports these recommendations, and we recommend that the government make a bold investment in watershed CPR, to conserve, protect and restore. To protect salmon for their entire life cycle, governments need to invest in the cause as opposed to the symptoms, and restore watersheds, protect flows and create habitat in perpetuity.

Whichever framework is used, the government needs to act now. Please take action to ensure that west coast wild salmon do not go the way of the east coast cod, and invest in making our watersheds the most resilient on the planet, with salmon, people and economies flourishing in river shed communities.

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly. You went a bit over your time, but I couldn't cut off somebody I have so much respect for. I knew you wouldn't be a lot longer.

We'll now go to our round of questioning. I remind guests and members alike to please leave your system on mute if you're not speaking. It causes a lot of problems when you don't do that.

For questioning, we'll now go to Mr. Arnold for six minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Your expert testimony is valued by this committee.

I want to start with Ms. Morton.

Ms. Morton, you mentioned the Cohen commission and the Broughton Archipelago. The Cohen commission has 75 recommendations. Recommendations 18 and 19 clearly state that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans should prohibit net-pen salmon farming in the Discovery Islands by September 30, 2020—that's this year, next month—unless the minister is “satisfied that such farms pose at most a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon.”

In your opening remarks this morning, you said that it's not possible for the minister to make that decision. Could you expand on why the minister will not be able to make that decision?

[Alexandra Morton]

It's because of the high sea lice infection rate this year, which is such a visible impact. DFO was not out on the water this year because of COVID, but my research team was. I preserved all the fish that I counted sea lice on, so if there's any question about what I recorded, the fish are in the freezer and people can look at them.

We know from published science in DFO by Dr. Sean Godwin that the lice levels on these fish—there was an average of nine lice per juvenile sockeye—reduce survival. That's a major risk for a run of fish that are headed for extinction.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Is the sea lice issue the only reason that's holding the minister back from making a decision, or are there other factors? You stated that the minister will not be able to make that decision.

[Alexandra Morton]

There are other factors. As I noted with the PRV science, honestly it has become so confusing within DFO. There are two DFO labs with completely opposite assessments.

Just put that aside for a moment and look at the sea lice. The minister cannot look at what happened to the Fraser sockeye this year and say that the salmon farms are, at most, having a minimal risk, because we know that what happened to them is going to reduce their survival and we know that it happened to 99% of them. That is just not acceptable, I think, to Canadians.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Do you believe the proof of more than minimal risk is there?

[Alexandra Morton]

Yes, I believe it is.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay, thank you.

The government has promised legislation on an aquaculture act multiple times. So far we haven't seen any draft legislation or heard much about that. It would be interesting to hear from you what you think an aquaculture act should contain.

What would it do to improve conservation of wild species and habitats and provide better regulatory certainty and consistency for aquaculture operators?

[Alexandra Morton]

I think, first and foremost, an aquaculture act has to move the industry onto land. Then they're free to grow. They won't have sea lice problems. They won't have low oxygen problems. They won't have the algal bloom problems.

Norway is pushing very hard for the industry to go onto land. In fact, they adjudicate on every land-based or closed containment application made by the industry, because they're trying to save the industry from itself. An aquaculture act in Canada should just move it onto land. Let's build a sustainable, remarkable industry that we can be proud of.

The industry has had 20 years to deal with the sea lice problem, and there's no evidence that they can deal with it. They brought in 80 million dollars' worth of boats last year and said they had it handled, but 37% of the farms this spring were over the three lice per farmed salmon limit that was set 15 years ago by government to protect wild salmon. They just can't control these sea lice in this country or any country.

An aquaculture act should protect the industry and put it on land in closed containment. Honestly, if the three Norwegians who are farming here right now don't want to do that, let's look to Canadians. Maybe there are Canadians who want to get into this industry. There are no Canadian-owned fish farms on the coast of British Columbia and maybe they want to do it.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I have about a minute left.

Mr. Snyder from the Spruce City Wildlife Association, has the wildlife association been a beneficiary of the salmon enhancement program in the past, and if so, how important was that program to the organization and the recovery or sustainability of salmon stocks?

[Dustin Snyder]

The Spruce City Wildlife Association had a partnership with SEP pretty much right from the inception of SEP. There was a funding cutback at one time, which was the same one that shut down the Penny hatchery, as well as the Quesnel River Research Centre hatchery that was in this area. That currently leaves only Spruce City left.

Right now we are the recipient of funding from the B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund. However, besides that we don't receive any funding from SEP. We have a community adviser here and he's extremely dedicated to helping us, because we are the only hatchery in his region. Unfortunately, when we need advice, whether it's hatchery advice or upgrade advice or that sort of thing, we have to reach out of region or out of area every time, just because we don't have that advice here. We don't have those resources here.

Where that's left us with local stocks, quite frankly, is high and dry. Along with not only no programs running, only a fraction of the streams up here are being monitored and it's kind of one of those things that, when people have something to lose, it's really easy to get people involved and engaged. Since we rebooted everything in the hatchery about four or five years ago with Spruce City, it's been really interesting and really neat to tell people that there are salmon here, that salmon do swim right by the city. Previous to that, again, we've lost so much and we've lost so many stocks that those numbers just aren't there for people to see them and realize that there still is something to lose.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Snyder.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

Ms. Morton, you've been shown the door at more than a few aquaculture facilities when you've attempted to find out what's going on. Is that still happening or are you being invited in?

[Alexandra Morton]

I'm not invited by the industry, but I am increasingly invited by first nations to help them navigate this situation. I spend a lot of time doing ATIPs, so I read the emails between government and industry. This has given me a background on what is going on and how to help the nations.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You say that the first nations are inviting you in. Are they the ones with a financial interest in these operations?

[Alexandra Morton]

No. In the Broughton Archipelago, the first nations never engaged in a financial arrangement, and they now have the authority to remove the farms. They are doing that. We are going to get a chance to see what happens when you remove these farms—first place anywhere in the world.

I am hearing from many nations. They may have signed agreements years ago, but I don't think there are any nations who signed an agreement that said, “You are going to lose your wild salmon. We'll take care of you—you'll have farmed salmon—but you're going to lose your wild salmon.” Nations, and probably almost everybody, thought we could have both the farmed salmon and the wild salmon. However, that isn't happening here, and it's not happening in Norway, Scotland, Ireland, Faroe Islands or Chile—well, Chile doesn't have wild salmon—or eastern Canada.

The industry isn't coexisting with wild salmon anywhere in the world, so there is no place we can look to as an example of how to go forward here.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

When we look at the issues you've raised over time, sea lice being one, the virus PRV.... By the way, DFO says the PRV that's present in the wild salmon has a different DNA than what is in Atlantic salmon, but we'll challenge them on that when their turn comes around.

What other kinds of dislocation do the fish farms create along the coast? I'm thinking of their impact on other species.