Fisheries Committee on Aug. 11th, 2020

[Alexandra Morton]

It's not that fish farms are my interest. It's that I lived in a territory that the fish farms moved into and then I studied the impact of that. I think hatcheries are a serious problem. I think disease testing should be upped in those hatcheries.

As for the pinnipeds, removing the predators has never helped to release the prey, except maybe in very specialized situations, like what is probably happening in the Columbia River and other rivers in our area. You have to be very careful. If you remove the animal that is eating the hake, for example, and the hake prey heavily on juvenile salmon, you can actually have a reverse impact. These are questionable ways to go forward.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Now I'll ask a question of Fin, my former colleague.

It's good to see you again. You and I have talked a number of times about the declining salmon populations on the west coast. Thank you for your interest in that.

Just on the interest that you've articulated today, there are issues of mass marking of hatchery fish to allow for a mark-selective fishery. There are proposals for selective fishing gear. Are there additional actions beyond those you've mentioned that the federal government should undertake to address the declining salmon populations?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you, Mr. Fast. It's nice to see you as well. Thank you for the question.

I've articulated in my presentation the importance of watershed CPR and bold action. The federal government must take bold action now. I think that's the bottom line. I emphasized the framework that many other witnesses also have talked about with regard to harvest, hatchery and habitat. I think we need a bold investment in habitat.

You mentioned harvest-selective fisheries. I think many nations and areas of the west coast are ready to go with implementing selective fishery types of solutions. Whether they're pound nets or what have you, I think that's something the federal government could facilitate today, and it could make that happen in test fisheries, even on the lower Fraser.

The critical thing right here, as I've emphasized before in my remarks, is that you as a committee need to come together to agree on most of the solutions. I think you could agree on most of the solutions. The reason I say this is that there is power in unity. When this committee of different values, approaches and parties comes together with a unified voice, the government will have a very hard time avoiding the recommendations this committee makes through the recommendations in your report.

I would ask, Mr. Fast, if you could take that courageous step to move forward with the members of the committee to save west coast wild salmon. That is what is needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Fast.

We'll now go back to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be up again, so I'll tell you what. If Ms. May has a question or two that she'd like to do a buzzer-beater with, then I'll cede some time to her.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. We'll go to Ms. May for two or three minutes. I am running out of time.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, panel.

Thank you very much. I'll try to be very succinct.

For the witnesses, this is something new we have. It's called “lowering the boom”, because we tend to forget to unmute ourselves.

I want to go to Fin Donnelly on this quick question. I very much agree with you, Fin, about unity. If there is any issue that should be non-partisan, it's saving our wild salmon. It's so much a part of our life in British Columbia.

In a hierarchy of things.... You just said that you think we could come to a consensus. I know this may be an awkward question, so rather than asking you where you don't think we have consensus, can you identify what you think the top and most important bold steps are that should attract 100% support from all the MPs around this virtual table?

[Fin Donnelly]

Thank you, Ms. May.

I believe we can come to a consensus over a framework. To put it in simple terms, for instance, our organization has called it watershed CPR: conserve, protect and restore. I believe Canadians want to conserve the west coast way of life. They want to see British Columbia's salmon survive into the future. As many witnesses have testified, we're on the brink. We need to protect those watersheds where the salmon live, in their habitat. We need to restore in some of those areas. Whether it be the lower Fraser or the upper Fraser or the Skeena or the Bulkley or the Nass or on the island, we need to restore where we've caused damage through industrial projects or human habitat. We now know that investment in watersheds will have co-benefits, not just for salmon but for people as well. It's those areas, I believe, that members of the committee feel are incredibly important and a good use of tax dollars.

Another very important issue is that Canadians want members of the committee and members of the government to be fiscally prudent with their tax dollars and investments. That is something where the federal government could play a role with the provincial counterparts, with indigenous governments, with the private sector, with fishing industries, with fishermen and with community-based organizations. You could leverage the investment that the federal government makes and it could go sevenfold with counter-investments or investments from other entities. I think that's where—

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Fin, forgive me, but I want to try to sneak in one more quick thing.

We know that our Liberal colleagues have made a commitment to planting millions of trees. It hasn't been operationalized yet. Do you have any hints on how we could make sure we get federal-provincial co-operation to actually plant the kind of ecologically appropriate trees to stabilize slopes?

[Fin Donnelly]

Absolutely. Thank you, Ms. May, for the question.

As I mentioned, Rivershed is part of the BC Watershed Security Coalition. We did a sector survey, and 145 projects came together to say that they could easily operationalize within three to six months over 20 million dollars' worth of projects, just in those projects alone, if a small investment was made. That's the kind of quick action the federal government could do with community-based organizations, indigenous organizations and municipalities that are ready to go.

You could get tree planting happening, restoration happening, in multiple watersheds throughout British Columbia with small amounts of money, targeted amounts of money. Then, of course, you'd need to look at how you can make a significant investment for the country.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. May.

We'll now go to Madame Gill for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pearce, I'd like to come back to you. I'm going to ask my question the other way around, so maybe we can get another answer.

You said there weren't really any obstacles. So there would be a market and opportunities. Fishers can harvest the resource. So what do you think the problem is?

There's a consensus that part of the solution for salmon could already be implemented. What's the obstacle?

[Ken Pearce]

I'm not quite sure.... Your sound was cutting out.

Could you quickly repeat that question?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I was saying that there was a consensus among the stakeholders on the harvesting of the pinniped resource to address the salmon issue, to some extent.

If there are no market barriers or barriers to hunters and the available infrastructure, what is it that isn't working? There would be a partial solution in the short term.

[Ken Pearce]

If I understand your question correctly, the solution is already in place. That's because of the infrastructure of the professional commercial fleet and all the infrastructure supporting it. The market is in place but yet to be proven. I understand there's a 400,000 quota on the east coast, and they've had trouble fulfilling that quota because of lack of market. So until we get this in gear and get the trial going, we won't have any definitive answers on that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

If there were no obstacles, what help could be given to sealers?

[Ken Pearce]

The help is in providing employment, and this employment [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I'm sorry. The interpretation has been cutting out. I didn't get a clear recognition of your question. My apologies from the west coast, English-speaking....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry about that.

Thank you, Madame Gill.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes before we clew up.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question goes back to Ms. Morton.

Ms. Morton, you talked about Washington state and some of the actions they've taken in terms of how they're managing salmon farming. We saw the escape that happened at Cypress Island and how Washington state responded to that escape. We had an escape at Christmastime up at Robertson Island, off north Vancouver Island. We saw how Canada responded. Can you talk about the comparison and how Canada is responding to escapes, sea lice and PRV that's being put in open-net fish farms?

[Alexandra Morton]

Canada is basically ignoring the problem, whereas Washington state really grabbed it by the horns. They passed legislation to pull the industry out of the ocean to stop Atlantic salmon farming and, most importantly, to stop the spread of this piscine orthoreovirus, a blood virus that causes Chinook red blood cells to rupture en masse.

Also, Washington state, of course, is removing dams. They have a huge commitment to wild salmon. They've proven this on many fronts. Canada has no will behind their wild salmon, and now we are seeing these enormous crashes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You talked about creating the position of director of wild salmon, or maybe even an ombudsman, someone who is separate from government, to give government an unbiased analysis—someone like Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders, potentially. Can you talk about the importance of that?

Right now, we have the B.C. First Nations Leadership Council, organizations like the one Mr. Donnelly is a part of, and the Pacific Salmon Foundation all asking for the government to remove salmon farming from open-net farms. Can you talk about the importance of having that position and what that could do for us?

[Alexandra Morton]

Salmon stocks are fluctuating wildly. Some are crashing and some are suddenly big, and we have no idea why. People are counting salmon in a different way up and down the coast. There's no unified system. Unless there is a detailed plan.... For example, what the director should do is go out to all the watersheds right now and find out what is going on: take the scientific tools, get everybody counting and measuring the environmental parameters in the same way and provide that data to mathematical modellers. Then, suddenly, the chaos that we're watching starts to make sense and you realize what is going on. It is absolutely key. It is one of the Cohen recommendations.

You have to have someone in DFO whose whole life is understanding not only why these salmon populations are crashing but why some of them are doing well, so that we do have an opportunity to see what is working. As a member of the fish health committee with DFO this winter, I can tell you that there is nobody in DFO whose entire job is the state of Pacific wild salmon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns. That clews up our questioning for today's committee meeting.

I want to say a special thank you to our guests for presenting here today and answering questions from all members, and also a big thank you to the committee as well for helping to make this probably one of the most informative sessions we've had in a while, I think, when it comes to Pacific salmon.

Thank you to our clerk, our analysts, our interpreters and anyone who makes it possible for us to be able to meet this way.

I look forward to seeing everyone again on Thursday. Take care.