Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Whooshh Innovations
As of a couple of days ago, about 5,000 have gone through the Whooshh system and have been transported above.
Conservative
Chief Executive Officer, Whooshh Innovations
We have seen chinook and sockeye. Those are primarily sockeye.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
I would be very curious to find out what that data is, Mr. Chair. I will use a little bit of this time to make a request that we send a letter to the minister requesting updates on the number of fish that this system is moving in a timely manner and reporting back to the committee. There is no reason that this information shouldn't be available to this committee.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Your time is up.
Mr. Calkins, are you making that as a formal motion or just asking for agreement of the committee to request that information?
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Mr. Chair, I'm not making a formal motion. I would be surprised if anybody on the committee would say no to it, but if we want to have that discussion later, I would be more than happy to entertain that.
Chief Executive Officer, Whooshh Innovations
There is a current count that is provided on the DFO website. That's provided daily, but not by species.
Liberal
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My questions are directed to Mr. Mirau, primarily, and probably to Ms. Scarfo.
There has been a lot of discussion in this particular meeting and in past FOPO meetings of the analysis between B.C. management of the salmon fishery and the Alaskan management. Alaska is doing it well.
Mr. Mirau, you referred to the need for proper and robust signs. How is Alaska competing with us in that particular area?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
To put it simply, you cannot catch what you don't count, you can't count what you don't see and you can't see what you don't look for. Alaska is identifying its fish stocks. They have more boots on the ground, with people walking streams, and drones and boats looking.
Quite often in northern B.C., our fish get identified by commercial fishermen. They tell DFO, and then DFO struggles to have a budget to get a boat out to look. The stock assessment here is bad—
The Clerk
I am sorry, Mr. Mirau. Would it be possible for you to move the microphone a bit?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
Yes. I'm sorry about that.
Our stock assessment on the grounds is really pathetic in British Columbia, compared to Alaska's. They have more boots on the ground, more assets and more of a priority to look for the fish and count the fish.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Just for clarification, nobody referenced this, but in comparison to B.C., is there no salmon farming done in Alaska ? Is the same type of fish farming done in Alaska?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
It's not allowed, actually.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
At an earlier committee meeting, a witness referenced—and nobody really spoke to it today—that salmon farms are one of the single biggest issues harming natural salmon stocks. Would the witnesses today agree with that, Madam Scarfo or Mr. Mirau?
President, West Coast Trollers Association, As an Individual
I would say that there's been ample evidence from the Cohen inquiry all the way through that fish farms are a significant problem. If you have a significant problem that you know exists, the precautionary approach would dictate that you don't allow them to continue, just as you don't allow fisheries to take place if you are posing a significant risk. I think there's been evidence that there's significant risk at this point.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
We do seem to be coming to a consensus that Alaska is managing the salmon fishery better than Canada is in B.C. Is that a fair statement?
President, West Coast Trollers Association, As an Individual
I would say so. Also, I would follow up on what my colleague mentioned, in that if you don't have boots on the ground, you don't have the information. Without the information, you can't manage, basically, so you abdicate management if you don't go out and get that information.
We had an example just this week. We know that the Fraser River run is an absolute disaster. The only way we know what's happening on the Fraser River before the fish actually arrive at the river is through the test fisheries. You send out commercial boats, and in a pattern that's evolved over a century, you basically compare catches in certain gauntlet areas to determine whether or not there are more fish coming, and if so, what part of the run you're starting to see. You DNA-sample them and you go to coded wire tag fish.
If you don't have test fisheries, you can't manage a fishery. They shut down the test fishery on Fraser River early this year, where we know that there is a significant problem, and now we have no eyes on the water. Also, the pink fisheries have been abolished in certain areas. We used to send in a small fleet and say that if there were fish, we'd continue to fish; otherwise, you're closed and that's it. Those are abolished.
As for test fishing going out, in our fishery, chinook is a different beast than sockeye is. It's a six-year cycle, so the datasets that we establish within our commercial fleet are very critical. The recreational fleet now harvests more than the first nations and the commercial combined, yet they have a voluntary compliance on letting us know how many fish they caught at the dock or in sampling. Our dataset that we're relying on is coming from a smaller portion of the fishery at any given time, and basically from the commercial fleet and from historical data when we actually had large fisheries.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. You have about three seconds left. I don't think you'll get to say much in the way of a question in that length of time.
We'll now go to Madam Gill for two and a half minutes or less, please.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Mirau, Ms. Scarfo or Mr. Edwards.
In your introduction, you mentioned—I can't remember who did, but I know that Mr. Mirau mentioned it—the issue of conflict of interest at Fisheries and Oceans Canada.
Could one of you elaborate on that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
I can answer that. One potential massive conflict would be DFO managing fish farms as well as wild fisheries. If there is a question and the science isn't settled about the safety of fish farms, then I think there's at least the perception of a conflict of interest there. In all of the allocation agreements, there is a conflict if the fish managers are actually in the discussion and they're the ones making the decision. I think it's a conflict—
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Chair, since there is no interpretation, probably because of the difficulties we experienced earlier, may I ask Mr. Mirau directly to speak a little more slowly?
I understand English, of course, but there is no interpretation at the moment. He could also send me a written answer, if that is possible.
Excuse me, Mr. Mirau, please continue.