Fisheries Committee on June 1st, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll get started. I'll do a virtual gavel to start the meeting. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number six of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Pursuant to the order of reference of May 26, 2020, the committee is meeting virtually for the first time for committee business.

As we all know, today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings are public and will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. To ensure an orderly virtual meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

First, interpretation in this video conference will work very much like it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of “Floor”, “English” or “French”. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike.

All comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Should members have a point of order, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order. If a member wishes to intervene for the usual committee business or on a point of order that has been raised by another member, I encourage him or her to use the “Raise Hand” function. In order to do so, you should click on “Participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list pops up, you will see next to your name that you can click “Raise Hand”. This will signal to the chair your interest to speak and will keep the names in chronological order.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged. Should any technical challenges arise, for example, in relation to interpretation or a problem with your audio, please advise the chair immediately, and the technical team will work to resolve them. Please note that we may need to suspend during these times as we need to ensure all members are able to participate fully.

Before we get started, I would ask everyone to click on their screen in the top right-hand corner to ensure they are on “Gallery View”. With this view, you should be able to see all of the participants in a grid row. It will ensure that all video participants can see one another.

For today, of course, we will not be hearing witnesses, but we will plan our future business. For this reason, I will remind members of a few points in relation to the motion adopted by the House on May 26 and make a few suggestions that I believe will make our meeting go easier. Pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on May 26, 2020, the committee may sit virtually until Monday, September 21, 2020, to consider matters related to the COVID-19 pandemic and other matters.

As just mentioned, committees are now able to consider “other matters”, and in addition to receiving evidence, the committee may also consider motions as we normally do. As stipulated in the latest order of reference from the House, all motions shall be decided by way of a recorded vote. Finally, the House has also authorized our committee to conduct some of our proceedings in camera, specifically for the purpose of considering draft reports or the selection of witnesses.

Today we are in public, and we will discuss future business of the committee. This means that we may have motions, amendments and debate that will have recorded votes. Because we are not in our physical setting, virtual means that if any motion or amendment is moved, we do not have the possibility of sharing paper copies like we often do. I would ask all members to take their time and to be clear and speak slowly if they move a motion or an amendment so that all members, but also all staff, understand it and have time to write it down if needed.

As mentioned earlier, I strongly encourage members to use the “Raise Hand” function to signal to the chair their interest to speak and to keep the names in chronological order.

If there are any questions, the floor is now open. Does anybody have anything to bring up with regard to committee business?

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Chair, at the opening of our first meeting since the COVID-19 crisis hit, I'd just like to recognize the fishermen whose vessel was lost last week. They found three members of the crew but one is still missing. I'd like to recognize the families of the community and the people of Newfoundland. How drastic this must be, especially at this time.

I think the committee would like to recognize that as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that reminder, Mel. It was indeed a very tragic incident that happened off the south coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. It's actually in the riding of MP Rogers.

It is very devastating. Three of the individuals were basically members of one family. The search continues, I believe, today for the fourth individual.

That fishing community has been hit very hard. With all the restrictions we have with COVID-19, the community doesn't know what it will do with regard to visitation and the funerals themselves. In a lot of these small communities, and probably in large ones as well, usually the whole community becomes part of this, but with this pandemic it makes it hard for them to do that. It's very difficult for family members and for the community as well.

Thank you for that intervention. It was good of you to think of it.

We'll move on now.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would also like to send my thoughts to the communities in Newfoundland. The fishers on the west coast don't seem to experience the nasty weather that they do in the Atlantic, but when you lose one, everybody feels it.

It was interesting that not that many days ago on one of the movie channels they were playing the movie The Perfect Storm. Of course, that is Atlantic weather at its worst.

We're facing a “perfect storm” situation here too with respect to the COVID-19 pandemic, the trading issues with China and the loss of access to markets, so fishers on both coasts are certainly weathering some very difficult times.

I know the government has stepped in with some assistance. I'm hopeful that the focus of our committee, at least for the first few meetings, will be to examine the assistance, look for gaps and then start to look to the future as to what we can do after the pandemic is more or less under control, which we hope will be sooner rather than later, to see what is next and provide stimulus, if necessary, and certainly address this perfect storm that we're dealing with right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, I do agree with my colleague Mr. Hardie that we need to start to listen to different sectors. We've done some work, some support for independent fishers. We need to hear from them on how things are rolling out in terms of the announcements that have been made and how that's flowing to them and what the sense of urgency is.

We also haven't heard from sectors such as the sport fishing sector. We haven't heard from inland fishers and supports for them yet. It is important that we have those stakeholders appear before the committee so we can explore ways we can support them through this very difficult time.

Also we have an ongoing crisis with the salmon emergency in British Columbia and the Big Bar slide. It would be very important for this committee to get an update on how COVID is impacting the efforts to bring back our wild salmon and certainly to help support the effort at the Big Bar slide.

I think there are some pertinent questions and it is absolutely critical that we have the minister testify before the committee so that we can ask her some questions around those related issues and how COVID is impacting those emergency issues we are facing as a country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Gord.

I see Mr. Arnold has his hand up.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Johns brings up an important point. We did have the minister scheduled to appear before the committee on March 26 before everything was shut down.

I would like to move a motion at this point that we request that the minister appear before the committee for two hours for an update on the Big Bar slide on the Fraser River and to begin questioning on the COVID-19 response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We have a motion by Mr. Arnold.

Nancy, do we have that written down?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Yes. I did take note of the motion, and the floor is open for debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, I agree with Mr. Arnold. I think the minister was due to appear. I believe we had talked about putting her in our schedule before the House was suspended.

Clearly, a lot has happened. For instance, we see news that the cost of the Big Bar remediation has gone up about three times from the original estimate. Very clearly, there have been some challenges there. I agree with Mr. Johns as well that the impact of the Big Bar on our wild salmon stocks and the future of them is critical, so I think it would be timely.

I would propose when we're looking at the schedule, we look at next week as an opportunity for the minister to appear before the committee and spend the two hours going through all of the details.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

Is there anyone else who wishes to speak to that motion?

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all my colleagues for joining us today. It's nice to be back together as a committee.

I want to echo the concerns raised by the previous three speakers. For us on the west coast, the west coast salmon issue is obviously the most compelling and urgent issue we face. Our west coast salmon are declining at such a rate that it is an existential issue right now. There are so many different challenges that the salmon face, everything from the Big Bar slide, to overfishing, to the types of nets used, fish farms. Many different issues are implicated on this issue. The sooner we can have the minister at the committee and the sooner we can actually flesh out additional opportunities to address the issue, the better.

As you know, the Cohen commission did issue its report a number of years ago. The government responded. I recently went through that report. There were dozens and dozens of recommendations and some of them were responded to in a way that really did not satisfy me. It would be very helpful for us as a committee, as part of that exercise of reviewing the west coast salmon fishery, to walk through those recommendations and determine which ones still require a more comprehensive response from the government. So far we still have a challenge and there's no indication that our west coast salmon are recovering at all. In fact, if anything, the signs are pointing the other way.

There's a little anecdote I want to share with all of you. Last week my wife went in to shop. Yes, she socially distanced, but she came back with a couple of tins of sockeye salmon. Each tin cost seven dollars. Now, I've never seen sockeye salmon quite that expensive, and I think in part it's reflective of the fact that the supply is no longer as abundant as it used to be. It certainly should compel us as a committee to undertake this study, and complete it, and bring the minister and her officials in to speak to us.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ed.

Is there anybody else who wants to speak before we vote on the motion?

Gord.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, can you reread the motion just as it stands?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I believe the motion was to have the minister appear before the committee for two hours in the very near future, and somebody mentioned next week or something.

Mel, correct me if I'm wrong. You did ask for the minister to appear before the committee for no less than two hours to answer questions on the Big Bar slide and the salmon and, indeed, the COVID effects that have been happening.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. The Big Bar slide was the one issue. I believe the minister should be able to answer questions on all matters when she appears. I'll be forwarding another motion, but I believe we have others who wish to speak as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Morrissey.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I believe Mr. Arnold addressed it. The motion was simply focused on two west coast issues for the minister to appear on. I think it should be open so that we can discuss east coast fishing issues as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Madam Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't know if you noticed that I raised my hand several times. I just wanted to make sure that things are working.

Thank you for repeating the motion, because I did not have access to the network for a while.

In my view, the time for the minister's appearance is a challenge. We are doubling the committee's business. In addition to the regular business, that is, our work on Big Bar on the West Coast, we also have everything related to COVID-19.

Is there any way to amend or change the motion so that the minister could appear first for routine matters and then appear again for COVID-19?

I would like to talk about the past and the present, and about the recovery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Madam Gill, is that in the form of an amendment to the original motion?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes.

I said “amend”. Yes, that is right, it is an amendment. I did not propose anything, but it could be four hours, two hours on routine matters and two hours on COVID-19 issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madam Gill.

Mr. Johns, you had your hand up. Was that to talk to the amendment or to the original motion?