Evidence of meeting #8 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I would say that the major reason for the delay on the work was water flow. It was because of the floods that were happening in fall 2018.
Deputy, if there's anything I have missed there, can you add to it, please?
3:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say that is the key reason.
3:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
What clear path does the department have to activate recovery plans for those salmon stocks that have been affected?
We keep hearing you're planning to plan, and that seems to be a mantra. We need to know if there is definite action taking place on the ground.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Actually, Mr. Arnold, I believe what was said was that we've already started with the enhancement programs with the hatchery in the upper Fraser. That is already working as a holding facility for the fisheries.
We are also undertaking a number of different measures with regard to habitat restoration outside of the Fraser River in British Columbia in general. The B.C. SRIF fund has spent over $70 million to make sure that we are dealing with a lot of the challenges facing the stocks.
Of course, we also have management measures that we put in place to deal with the stock assessment, and we'll continue to look at a lot of different ways that we can help. We know there are a lot of challenges facing the B.C. salmon right now, and we're working diligently to find the answers for those challenges.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see you back.
Now that we've had these numbers of months to look at Peter Kiewit's work, get an idea of the logistical challenges of getting things set up so they can even start to do the work, and now that we've been in there blowing up boulders and moving things around, what is the estimate of how much more time it's going to take until the passageway is open and as much back to normal as possible?
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
One of the things I need to talk about here is the magnitude of the work that has been done so far.
With regard to getting to the site, in general, as I said, this is an extremely remote area. We had to put in roadways in order to be able to move boulders. Kiewit has done phenomenal work in terms of getting us to that point.
If I had an answer, Mr. Hardie, on when it was going to be done, I would be so thrilled, but right now it's all hands on deck every day to try to make sure we clear the passage and make sure we put measures in place to mitigate the challenges facing the salmon in the area.
Deputy, do you have anything else that you would like to add there? I know that we are working extremely hard to do as much as we can to get it done as quickly as we can.
3:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Just to add to that, as the minister said, we're doing enhancement, habitat restoration and fisheries management measures that we instituted last summer, and we're looking at more this summer.
We're working very hard on all fronts. However, the reality is we won't know what the result of the rock-blasting work that we did over the winter will actually be until the summer, when we can actually observe the fish when they come back and see if they're getting over. Even then there will be a bit of a lag, because we have to count how many actually are able to get over, and it takes a little while to get that information.
That is why we need to have plan B, plan C and plan D all ready to go.
As I said, we have a very strong commitment to ensuring that fish can ultimately get over that barrier.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When we look at pictures of the scene, we see that the challenge of getting the work done is very obvious, but we also see that there are a lot of menacing cliffs sitting there. We understand this may have been a seismic event as opposed to the normal freeze and thaw, which can, of course, cause pieces of cliff to break away.
Nonetheless, has an assessment been done up and down that stretch of the river to see if there are other rockfaces that are ready to fall in?
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
3:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's a hugely complicated exercise. We're doing a lot of studies right now to understand the impact of this on fish stocks.
This is a particularly difficult place for us, just given its very remote location. It is not an area where anyone is around during a good part of the year.
In terms of a seismic event, that kind of analysis, obviously from DFO's standpoint, is not expertise that we have. Our expertise is around fish, and biology more generally. That would be more for NRCan on the federal side, and particularly the Province of British Columbia and its ministry of forestry and lands.
We have been working very closely with the Province of British Columbia on all of this. As has been said, they are actually responsible for the rock. The water and the things that move in the water are things that we're responsible for, and they've been paying for a significant part of our efforts on Big Bar, including the blasting. That's a question we would very much want to work with them on—
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
With respect, sir, I guess the fundamental question is whether there is a present risk that we're going to get another slide from the adjacent rock faces. Do we know?
3:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Geologists are not very good at predicting seismic events.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay. Fair enough.
The Watershed Watch people were very complimentary, by the way, of the work that has gone on, but they are less than complimentary about the long-term management of Pacific salmon. I think this committee is going to invest a fair amount of time.
Are you aware, for instance, Minister, that there are a lot of other obstructions, but they come in the form of flood mitigation up and down the river, which has cut off countless numbers of small streams that salmon used to use?
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
There are a number of challenges facing the B.C. salmon populations, including, as you said, the flood challenges. Climate change with regard to habitat is definitely a significant challenge for the salmon. We are taking a number of steps. There is no silver bullet to fix the challenges we're facing with salmon populations.
I actually look forward to your committee doing a study to see what you think are some of the things that can be done, because we are working around the clock to make sure we are doing everything we possibly can to protect the salmon population and to grow the numbers.
As I said, the Fisheries Act has talked about rebuilding stocks. Those are all things we're working on now, but more needs to be done in terms of how we go forward to best protect these stocks.
I look forward to your committee doing some work on that and giving us some ideas on how that can best go forward.
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie. Your time is up.
I know we're supposed to go to Madam Gill, but I think she has agreed to give her time to Mr. Johns. I will say a big thank you to Madam Gill for filling in for me a few moments ago. I really appreciate that.
When you're ready, Gord, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, can you clarify that I have two and a half minutes and then two and a half.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Okay. Super.
I want to return to the question that I didn't have enough time to finish.
Minister, there was a commitment by the Prime Minister in the mandate letter to you to work with the Province of British Columbia and indigenous communities to create a responsible plan to transition from open-net pen salmon farming in coastal British Columbia waters by 2025 and to begin work to introduce Canada's first-ever aquaculture act.
British Columbians were expecting that the government was going to commit to moving from open-net salmon farming by 2025, not to having a plan.
Can you clarify whether it's a plan or a commitment to move to closed containment by 2025? People are wondering. There were many Liberal candidates in the last election who stated that it was a commitment to actually move to closed containment by 2025.
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
We're committed to moving to closed containment. That is something that was in our mandate. We're working now diligently with the province as well as with the first nations communities.
Of course, in the context of COVID-19, some things have had to be put on hold for a while to make sure we do this right. It's something we know is important to the people of British Columbia, but we also recognize that open-pen aquaculture is extremely important to some of our coastal communities. In terms of crustaceans, communities there rely heavily on it for their economic survival.
We can't do this unless we do it in collaboration and in consultation with these organizations. That's what we're going to do. That's what we're committed to. We have already started the process.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm still not getting the answer. Is it a commitment to a plan, or is it a commitment to be at closed containment by 2025?
You talk about things being put on hold. I will tell you what's not put on hold, which is the sea lice epidemic that's going on right now, the massive die-offs in aquaculture that are impacting our wild stocks and the transfer of diseased fish to open-net salmon farms and the impact they are having on our wild stocks.
I want to get clarity. Is it a plan or is it a commitment to move to closed containment?
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
We are working extremely hard with our first nations communities and with the Province of B.C. in order to make sure we're doing everything we possibly can to move to closed containment.
We know there are many communities that rely on open-net pens as their economic drivers. We are working with them to figure out the best ways forward, and we will continue to do that work.
3:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
With respect to the contract that was awarded to Kiewit, my understanding is that one of the stipulations of the contract was that qualified local indigenous workers were to be hired when available. I have heard from a local company that was set to be hired by Kiewit, but they were cancelled at the very last minute.
What enforcement mechanisms does the department have to ensure that qualified local indigenous workers are hired? Also, in what ways has the working guidance of elders and knowledge keepers been incorporated into the day-to-day operations on the site?
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I'm going to turn that question over to the deputy, please.
3:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is a number one priority for us to ensure that indigenous peoples are involved in the Big Bar remediation efforts. We've made sure that they're involved in the incident command room, for instance, and when the contracts were put together, it was very important to us that they were a part of that.
I'm going to ask our CFO, Jen O'Donoughue, who has been very much involved with the procurement process, to comment on some of those details.