Fisheries Committee on June 9th, 2020

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just touching on some of the questions from my colleague, what impact does the Big Bar slide have on the chinook fishery across B.C.?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm going to turn that over to the deputy minister.

[Timothy Sargent]

Once again, Rebecca, can you take that on?

[Rebecca Reid]

The species that are affected spawn above the Big Bar site. There are some chinook stocks, particularly, and sockeye, for the most part. However, the impact across the coast is fundamental because of the importance of those stocks, from an ecosystem perspective. Southern resident killer whales feed on them. They are important for our fisheries. They're certainly very important for first nations for food security reasons.

While the chinook don't represent the entire resource of chinook in British Columbia, it is important to consider those particular fish given that they're very important to the ecosystem and are relied upon by a number of sectors, by first nations, by recreational and commercial harvesters and by our whales. The implications are quite significant.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

My riding is home to the Pacific Science Enterprise Centre, and I know at PSEC researchers are studying the multiple factors that impact fish migration, physiology and fate, and how this affects migration and reproductive success.

Minister, I was hoping you could explain and elaborate on this whole-of-lifespan approach and how it helps in fisheries management.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm turning technical questions over to my deputy.

[Timothy Sargent]

Thanks. It's a technical question, but it's a very good question, because salmon have one of the most complicated life histories of any fish that we manage. We have to worry about what happens to them in fresh water, we have to worry about what happens to them as they go into the coastal areas, then we have to worry about what happens to them in the ocean and then all the way back again, so you really do need to take that life-cycle approach.

It means we have to recognize what happens in the ocean, which is probably the area we understand the least, quite frankly. We know there's climate change going on and we know there's acidification. That's why we've been looking at sending science missions to understand, with our international partners, what happens there.

Then on the way back, as some have mentioned, there are some complex predation cycles as well, interactions with sea lions and other potential predators like the SRKW themselves, and then we need to understand, as they go up the river, the impact of deforestation, for instance, and land use practices that affect both the river and where they spawn. Things like water temperature in the spawning areas can also be extremely important.

You have to put together all of these factors when you're modelling the salmon in order to understand why we're seeing some of these general trends or where they are going to go.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thanks for that technical explanation.

One of my colleagues mentioned earlier the B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund, the BCSRIF.

Minister, could you explain what role it plays in ensuring we have healthy stocks of Pacific salmon?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

BCSRIF is a phenomenal program that allows communities to do enhancement, working on coastal restoration and working on habitat restoration. We have had great success with this program working with the Province of British Columbia as well as a number of the first nations communities that are very active in making sure the fish habitat is preserved and conserved.

We want to make sure that we continue to do that. We've already allocated $70 million of the $148 million in BCSRIF as well as, I think, 29 projects so far, so the money is flowing to the communities and the organizations that are doing this work.

Is there anything else, Deputy, that you'd like to add?

[Timothy Sargent]

Maybe Rebecca could add a little bit more colour.

[Rebecca Reid]

Sure. There have been 192 expressions of interest, and we've funded about $70 million so far. There are a number of projects that will directly benefit these stocks in the Fraser River, and there's another round, a new round, going to be planned to come up relatively soon.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thanks for that.

That leads directly into my next question. How, if at all, has BCSRIF programming been redirected to support efforts related to Big Bar and some of the stocks that have been impacted by the slide?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Deputy, I'm going to turn that one to you.

[Timothy Sargent]

Yes, again, Rebecca, I think you're close to that one on the ground.

[Rebecca Reid]

As I just started to say, we have funded a number of activities such as habitat restoration studies, boots-on-the-ground work, that are directly benefiting the stock. An example is the north Pacific survey that just came back. They went out to the ocean to look at what's going on out on the high seas.

There are a number of really great examples of how SRIF has supported and helped advance the studies and work for these stocks. Certainly we could provide a list as well with more detail, if requested.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

We'll now go to Mr. Fast for five minutes or less, please.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you very much.

Minister, I appreciate your being here. We're asking tough questions, but it's important because I think you will acknowledge that our Pacific salmon face an existential crisis, especially when we hear that some 99% of our runs are being lost. That is shocking. It should cause dismay among everybody who values our Pacific salmon.

I met with people from the Pacific Salmon Foundation in December. In their estimation, harbour seals are consuming up to 45% of outgoing juvenile salmon. In other words, almost half of all the outgoing juveniles are gone before they ever get to maturity. That represents a real threat. We're also hearing this on the east coast, where grey seals have been identified by your department as a key factor in the decline of a number of species of fish.

Can you tell us what you're doing about the threat posed by excessive predation? I'm not talking about plans. This has been a problem for years. I would suggest it's a decades-long problem, and we need action on this. Do you have any specific action items to address this particular problem?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Fast, you're absolutely right. The salmon is absolutely critical to B.C., and I don't mean just as a food source or for commercial harvest but to the very culture. It's so much a part of the identity of British Columbians that it's critical that we make sure we protect and do everything we can to build those stocks back up.

With regard to predation, with regard to seals specifically, there are a number of challenges with the seal population. We make our decisions based on the best available science. Ongoing science is being done now to determine what is happening with the seals with regard to the fish stocks, both on the east coast and the west coast. I'm not sure if the deputy can add anything to that in terms of specific things that are being done, but I know a great deal of work is being done around the science of seal predation.

[Timothy Sargent]

Yes, this is a pretty complicated issue. Of course, seals and various fish stocks have co-evolved over millennia. We need to understand the predator-prey interactions. Yes, seals can eat salmon, for instance, on the west coast or on the east coast, but seals also eat fish like hake that also eat salmon. So more seals can make life easier for salmon. It just depends where the seals are.

When we look at the diet of seals, certainly on the west coast, salmon are not the main part of their diet. We need to understand more about these interactions. There is a ceremonial hunt for seals on the west coast, but before we can take action, we need to understand the situation better.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

With respect, Mr. Sargent, the department has been discussing and studying predation for years. They know it's a problem and soft-pedalling this as an issue isn't going to help our salmon stocks on the west coast. I really need to know what action is going to be taken to address predation, and not only here on the west coast. It is a huge issue on the east coast. Our recreational fishers especially are getting very antsy when they see their fish being taken by seals before those fish can even be landed. You know and I know that action needs to be taken now. It's not just about studying this endlessly without any action plan.

Minister, is your department still planning to expand the pneumatic tube system to get the fish past the Big Bar slide? It's my understanding that two pathways were initially established, and there's a concern, as my colleague Mel Arnold mentioned earlier, about accommodating different sizes of salmon. Some of them are quite large, and I'm not sure they're going to make it through that tube. Your comments on that would be very helpful.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

My understanding is that we have been working closely with the company that is building the pneumatic fish pump in order to accommodate the size of the fish we have. Different sizes of tubes will be used. We are absolutely confident that they will make sure we can move our fish through the pneumatic system.

Deputy, I don't know if there's anything else there.

[Timothy Sargent]

This kind of fish is also moved using the Whooshh system in Washington state.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Does that include large fish?

[Timothy Sargent]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Fast.

We'll go on to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.