Evidence of meeting #8 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you.
It is a very important part of the work that Peter Kiewit Sons is doing. We have asked that it have a benefits plan in place. We monitor it very closely, and if any concerns come up through engagement with first nations communities, we make sure that we are raising those. We have weekly meetings with Kiewit, and if there are concerns, we make sure that they are dealt with as quickly as possible.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Ms. O'Donoghue, we want to work with you to make sure that we're bringing those to your attention, if we could, because there are concerns.
It has also been difficult for the public to know what's going on in certain areas, and the rationale of decisions. The department has certainly been more accessible of late. I have to give you a lot of credit on that.
There have been suggestions that an independent advisory panel that reports to the minister be implemented as a way to provide additional public confidence in the response. This would also help with some oversight of the concerns I just shared with you.
Is this something that the minister would consider?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
We've been very open and transparent about what has been happening at Big Bar since the inception. We put out weekly bulletins, and we engage with stakeholders and the communities in the areas to make sure that they feel they've been well informed. I've kept in touch with the MP from the area to make sure that he feels he has received the information he needs, as well as with anyone who has reached out to us. DFO has been extremely responsive in answering questions as they come forward.
Deputy, I'm not sure if there's anything else that needs to be added.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would only add that we have a joint steering committee where first nations are involved. As was talked about earlier, we've had very high levels of communications activity on this file.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you for that.
Thank you, Mr. Johns. Your full five minutes has expired.
Now we'll go to Mr. Bragdon.
I understand, Mr. Bragdon, that you may be sharing your time, so I'll leave that decision up to you as you go through your questioning. You can just indicate that you'll now share the rest of your time with whomever.
Thank you.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the fellow members on the call here today.
Welcome, Minister.
I just have a couple of questions, and then I'll be turning it over to Mr. Calkins.
Minister, how many salmon are estimated to have died in 2019 as a result of their migration route being impeded by the landslide and as a result of the subsequent stress?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I'm going to turn that question to the deputy.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Rebecca, I think you have those numbers at your fingertips.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
First of all, as the minister said, about 60,000 fish were helicoptered over the site, and 220,000 migrated through the slide. For the most part, we lost, at the early stages, almost the entire stock. For the early Stuart ones, it was about 99%, and for the early chinook, it was about 89%. As the season went along, things improved. There was, particularly at the beginning, almost a complete loss of the fish and poor survival.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Mr. Chair, are they expecting similar mortality rates this year, or what percentage of improvement will there be over last year? Do we have any estimates on that yet?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Of course, this year we're going to have different processes in place in order to help make sure that the salmon get through. With a pneumatic fish pump, with the natural passageway, the idea is that more fish will be able to get through. We are also willing to have people on the ground doing the transport, like we had last year.
Deputy, is there more you can add? I know that this year the plan is to significantly increase the number of fish that get through.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Okay, thank you.
I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Calkins.
Liberal
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sorry.
We do expect better performance this year. We have a lot more measures in place.
Even last year, once we were able to set up a way to transport some fish, we did see some better numbers.
The reality is that we aren't really going to know until the fish show up and we can observe them. We've done a lot of blasting. We've seen that a lot of the rock has been removed. However, even though we've had modelling done, how that affects the hydrology and the ability of salmon to actually get over that barrier we won't really know until the fish show up.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Minister, it seems to me that we're not getting answers to the question about whether or not the harvest reductions from last year and this year have succeeded. The harvest reductions on the west coast are meant to preserve and protect the Fraser River runs, but now that we have the Big Bar slide on the Fraser River, we know that we've just about lost everything from last year on certain runs of chinook. All of these closures, it seems, may have been for nothing, even though the intent was good.
When are we going to find out whether or not these closures have actually done any good? When can we get some information on this?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
With regard to fisheries management decisions on the chinook salmon runs specifically, more than just the management decisions are going to make a difference in the salmon stocks. As I've said, there isn't one specific thing that's going to make all of the difference. It's about making sure salmon have the right habitat. Of course, the Big Bar landslide was something that nobody predicted was going to happen, and it has had an impact on the stock.
We are making sure that we're making decisions based on science, and we're making sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to protect those stocks.
Deputy Minister, I'm not sure if there's anything else you'd like to add.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Hang on. I get a chance to talk to department officials all the time. Minister, I want to talk to you.
Minister, you say all of these things, the whole suite and the whole gambit, yet it seems to me that every time the department talks at committee, they say the only management tool they have, basically, is fisheries closures.
We've lost the hatcheries upstream of the Big Bar slide. We know that the Quesnel and Eagle hatcheries have been abandoned. We have some community-based hatcheries up there too. We know there's active predation going on. The pinniped population on the west coast has gone up significantly. There are now academic reports suggesting that maybe some active management of pinnipeds to ensure the survival of the chinook coming out of the Fraser River is going to be necessary.
We're not talking about these things. We're talking about fisheries management regulations. We've shut down hatcheries and we're not actively managing predators. The only thing we're doing is taking away resources from the people who make their livings on the west coast, without taking a look at these other things.
Are we actually going to do something, other than just enact fisheries regulations, to preserve these valuable salmon stocks? It's time to do something different, because what we're doing clearly isn't working.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm sorry, Minister, but we've gone way over time on the question part and that doesn't leave any time for an answer. If you could provide an answer to the committee in writing, we would appreciate it.
I would remind members that without the proper—
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's about interpretation. Because of the poor sound quality, there is no interpretation when Mr. Calkin speaks. I don't know if he has another headset. Otherwise, would it be possible for him to have one the next time, so that I can have access to all the interventions?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you for that, Madam Gill.
I've been told that, due to the fact that Mr. Calkins doesn't have the proper equipment or is not using the proper equipment, interpretation is not available.
I remind members to try to use the proper equipment that's been recommended for this session. Comments must be able to be translated for the convenience of all members of the committee. If we run into the same thing again, somebody who has the right equipment may have to reread any question or statement from anybody who doesn't have the proper equipment. I just want to put that out there.
We will continue on now. We're getting near the end. We'll probably get through this meeting, and hopefully we can work on that malfunction in the next one.
We'll go to Mr. Weiler, for five minutes or less, please.