Evidence of meeting #8 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There's none that we're aware of.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Great.
Minister, you mentioned earlier in your responses that you'd set up two working groups as part of the response to Big Bar. I'm wondering how experts have been involved in these working groups, and how their advice has informed the decisions that have taken place to date.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
As I said, we've had these two working groups there since, I believe, late December or early January. They work together to find the best way forward in case things don't go as planned. We want to make sure that we're not waiting until we find out if things are working before we have the next measures in place. We're going to continue to work with them.
We have a number of different professionals on site who are working with the first nations community. We have an archaeologist there to make sure we're keeping the land as it should stay. We have, of course, a significant number of engineers. The people from Kiewit have been exceptional in terms of keeping us posted on what they're doing.
I'm not sure, Deputy, if you have anything else you wanted to add there.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, that's pretty complete, Minister.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
A lot of the measures that have been discussed for Big Bar have really been focused on the short term. What type of solution is DFO considering to enable fish to pass through the site over the long term?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I think the ultimate goal would be to clear it enough so that it's a natural passageway for the fish, so that it's not something that we have to continually monitor or maintain. Barring that, we will continue to make sure that there is a natural-like fish passageway there for the salmon to get through, as well as the Whooshh system this year, in order to help make sure that we get as many through as possible.
I think the primary goal ultimately would be to clear it enough so that we don't have to maintain it and we don't have to be concerned about it. We'll continue to work toward that, but in the meantime we are making sure there are measures in place to get the fish through.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Great.
I understand that some of the different short-term measures will be viable under different flows of water. I know the natural fishway is going to require a certain level of water flow. I'm wondering if it's expected this summer, given the high water flow we've had to date. What level of confidence do we have that the flow of the water is going to make the natural fishway viable?
Liberal
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's always tricky to predict the water levels. It depends on so many factors. We're just going to be ready for whatever happens. We have the natural fishway and we have the Whooshh system, and we're ready to use some of the other procedures that we used last summer, such as using trucks or even helicopter transport, depending on what the level of that water is going to be. Of course, we don't know yet how effective the blasting has been and to what extent the fish will be able to move naturally, or whether they're going to need some assistance.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
In the event that the natural—
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Nancy Vohl
I'm sorry, but I will have to intervene because the chair has asked that the vice-chair take the chair.
Can Ms. Gill take the floor?
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Marilène Gill
I'll replace the chair for a few minutes.
I now give the floor to Mr. Arnold, who has five minutes.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, considering that the value of this contract has nearly tripled because of spending and the estimates for this year seem to be overshot already, either the scope or the cost of the work at Big Bar was underestimated. What steps are in place to set achievements, or what achievables are there? What is being done to make sure that this project is properly costed and that there is a better assessment moving forward?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Madam Chair, I would not say that this is over cost. We initially put $17 million into the remediation efforts, knowing that if it was not enough, we would have to continue with more. We're going to continue to make investments as required for this critical initiative.
We have to take all steps possible to clear this way. This is significant to the communities that it serves, and we're going to make sure that we do everything we have to do to make sure that the salmon populations can move.
It's taking some time, some effort and some money, but we know this is critical to the people of British Columbia, to the salmon stocks and to the first nations communities in the area. We're going to continue to do what we need to do to make sure that those salmon pass through.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Is there an estimate on what the total cost of this project is going to be, or is it continually under reassessment?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
We're continuing to make sure that we mitigate the challenges faced by Big Bar.
Right now we are working with Kiewit to clear the way as quickly as possible. The Whooshh system is being put in place and the natural fish passageway is being put in place. We need to make sure that we do everything we can to address the concerns.
Ultimately the goal is to clear the area enough so that it's a finished project, but until we have that done, we will continue to make sure we're investing where we need to.
Deputy Minister—
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Very quickly, has the Whooshh system been tested on large fish that are the size of the chinook salmon that pass up the Fraser River?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Deputy Minister, can I pass that to you, please?
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. Rebecca, could you comment?
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have been working with the contractor for the Whooshh system, and the contractor has provided us with assurance that the system will work. Variable sizes of tubes are used for the body of the fish, and the tubes we have are appropriate for the types of fish sizes we have, so we have full confidence that it will work.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Minister, apart from the rock slide that occurred overnight in early May, have there been any other incidents of rockfall, either during or outside work hours at the work site?
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I believe there was a small slide in May that was outside of work hours. I believe it was two cubic metres or something like that.
Deputy Minister, maybe you can take that question.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Actually, I'll pass it on to our chief financial officer, Jen O'Donoughue, who has been following this situation closely.
Jen O’Donoughue Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Chair, there was one incident. It happened when there were no workers on site. It was investigated and some remediation has happened since, but, again, it happened when workers were not on site.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I take it that if the workers had been on site, it would have been a different situation.
Minister, you mentioned the Fisheries Act review. I noted in the timeline that there was some delay in looking at the review of the Fisheries Act and the work with in-water blasting and removal of rock.
How much time delay was there from the Fisheries Act review before work started moving forward? What other issues caused delays in moving forward with the work on the Big Bar project?