Evidence of meeting #10 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Coldwater Lobster Association
Absolutely, it could. It could lead to conditions on our MSC for a five-year period. We don't have it yet, but it could lead to that.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Mr. Williams, you represent a large, credible group. Would you care to give your opinion on my questions?
Research Director, Canadian Council of Professional Fish Harvesters
The point I would emphasize there is that there are problems. Members of our organization frequently report issues around illegal lobster sales, etc., but it's not everywhere and it's not every first nation. There are a number of first nations that have worked—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I was not just referring to first nations. I was referring to the industry globally.
Research Director, Canadian Council of Professional Fish Harvesters
Where first nations harvesters are engaged in these illegal activities, it's often sponsored by or at the initiative of non-indigenous actors in the industry.
On P.E.I., where you are, I don't think this kind of problem has reached any scale at all. There's a high level of collaboration.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Mr. Clarke, I have about 30 seconds left. You've been in the business a long time. How would you answer to the issue of illegal activity?
South West Nova Scotia Area Chief of Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Retired), As an Individual
From my understanding, it has resulted in two things. One is that over the last few years, the number of food fish traps that are authorized had been increasing to what I'm hearing is a stage when the quantity of traps being issued are reaching commercial quantities. When you're catching commercial quantities, that increases the incentive to sell commercial quantities illegally.
What happens is not so much the indigenous fishermen, but that the non-indigenous lobster poachers and the unscrupulous lobster buyers are conducting their illegal activities under the guise of a legitimate food fishery. The more people who get away with it....
Non-compliance is broken down into three levels. There are some people who will never break the regulation, some people who will always break them, and the 60% in between who will go one way or the other, depending on what the deterrent is. If there's no deterrent and if people aren't getting caught and prosecuted, then those groups are going to go into non-compliance. That's what is taking place in southwest Nova Scotia—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you.
We'll now go to Madam Gill for six minutes or less, please.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses Mr. Berry, Mr. Williams and Mr. Clarke for agreeing to testify.
First, I have a question for Mr. Clarke. I think it's worthwhile to get a fishery officer's point of view.
Mr. Clarke, you have notably been an officer for 35 years. You mentioned earlier enforcement of regulations and lack of resources, equipment and budget. I know that is a lot. You seem to be suggesting that these factors are obviously having an impact on the current situation.
If you had any recommendations and requests to make about this, what would they be?
South West Nova Scotia Area Chief of Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Retired), As an Individual
I'm not sure I understood your question. Could you repeat it, please?
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Yes, of course.
Is the interpretation working?
Mr. Chair, can we make sure Mr. Clarke is hearing the interpretation?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Madam Gill, I have the time stopped for now.
Mr. Clarke, you can select the language that you want to hear on the bottom of your screen on the computer. You have to have that set on English if you want to hear it in English even though Madame Gill will be speaking French.
Please continue, Madame Gill.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Okay.
I will go faster.
Mr. Clarke, it would be worthwhile to hear your point of view, because you have 35 years of experience as a fishery officer. Your testimony has shed new light on the situation.
One of the things you mentioned was that the enforcement of regulations, and availability of resources, equipment and budget are problematic for fishery officers. That echoes what Mr. Berry also said a little earlier.
To improve this type of situation, what recommendations would you make in terms of regulations, resources, equipment and the budget allocated to fishery officers?
South West Nova Scotia Area Chief of Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Retired), As an Individual
I'm having trouble with your translation because I can hear your French at the same time that I'm hearing the translation and they're talking over each other.
Bloc
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Nancy Vohl
If I can intervene....
Mrs. Gill, is it possible that your—
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Chair, if I may, I can try to quickly translate my question. If I do, I will be breaking with the Bloc Québécois tradition, but I will do it anyway.
I'd really like to hear Mr. Clarke's response.
I can try to ask my question in English if you're able to understand my accent.
South West Nova Scotia Area Chief of Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Retired), As an Individual
I can understand you fine in English.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
You have to have years of experience as an agent des pêches— I don't know how to say that in English. It was pretty interesting what you just spoke about a couple of minutes ago. You spoke about rules, resources, equipment and budgets and that you needed more resources for the job of agent des pêches. I wondered if you could just develop that. What would be needed by the DFO staff in order to achieve their goal well and to ensure that these kinds of situations...? I don't know how to say that.
In other words, how can we make sure that these kinds of situations don't escalate? How do you say that in English?
It would help in resolving those kinds of situations.
South West Nova Scotia Area Chief of Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans (Retired), As an Individual
Yes, I understand your question very well.
The difficulty I have is that I haven't been involved directly with DFO in enforcement for five or six years now, so I'm not sure of the present situation. I was involved in a process at the time called C and P renewal, which introduced another level of supervision into the fishery officer training and command.
It was working effectively, but I hear that because of budget cuts some of that has now been rolled back. I've heard of situations in the last couple of years where fishery officers have had to park their vehicles because they had no gas to put in their vehicles. I've heard that they have positions that are acting, with no incumbents in the position. I think it has to be looked at again in terms of what was done with C and P renewal to see how much of this has eroded.
I worked very closely with this when former prime ministers Chrétien and Martin were involved, but I'm afraid, from what I'm hearing from the field staff, that since the Harper government, there have been cuts not only to science but to enforcement that are contributing to some of the problems we're seeing today.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Clarke.
Mr. Berry and Mr. Williams, I would also like to hear what you have to say about the fishery officer's role and the needs being felt. We are obviously talking about the situation in Nova Scotia, but it could be the same anywhere in Quebec or in Canada.
President, Coldwater Lobster Association
I think Mr. Morrissey brought up earlier that over the years DFO has its their budget cut drastically. At times, they have very little presence on the water. Their working platforms are old and antiquated...the boats. There needs to be a huge cash infusion, on the C and P side in DFO, because they do not have the tools to do the job that is asked of them. There's a lack of equipment and a lack of officers. There need to be some budgetary changes here, and certainly the DFO C and P needs to be [Technical difficulty—Editor]
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Mr. Chair, I completely lost track of time.
I don't know if I perhaps have a few seconds left?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You have about half a minute if you want to try to get a quick question in.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I heard Mr. Williams suggest reducing the number of guardians, as this might resolve the situations between individuals.
Can he explain his thinking?