Evidence of meeting #2 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Nancy Vohl

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I now call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number two of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. The committee is meeting to discuss committee business.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to start the meeting by providing you with some information following the motion that was adopted in the House on Wednesday, September 23, 2020.

The committee is now sitting in a hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference. Witnesses must appear by video conference.

All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purpose of quorum. The committee's power to sit is, however, limited by the priority use of House resources, which is determined by the party whips.

All questions must be decided by recorded vote unless the committee disposes of them with unanimous consent or on division.

Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, provided that it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent to such deliberations with remote participants.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Members should be aware that the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, we would like to outline a few rules to follow.

For the purpose of participating virtually, these are the rules: Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either “Floor”, “English” or “French”.

Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference.

Should members need to request the floor outside of their designated time for questions, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order.

If a member wishes to intervene on a point of order that has been raised by another member, they should use the “raise hand” function. This will signal to the chair your interest to speak and create a speakers list. In order to do so, you should click on “Participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list pops up, you will see next to your name that you can click on “raise hand”.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly.

Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes in that case, as we need to ensure all members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person, these are the rules: Proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture or, at an appropriate time, get the attention of the clerk, who will add you to the speaking order. Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for an appropriate time and indicate to me clearly that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

That said, the speakers list is now open. Please make your desire to speak known by using the “raise hand” function or by raising your hand visibly on camera.

Mr. Battiste, I believe you raised your hand first. We will now go to you.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay, you have a point of order, Mr. Calkins.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

I send my apologies to my colleague Mr. Battiste. I know he wants to get to the point.

Chair, in your initial readout, you basically said that the committee would wait to make sure that anybody experiencing technical difficulties could join the meeting. We spent quite a bit of time at the start of the meeting to ensure that everybody could be on, but my colleague from Manitoba, Dan Mazier, is having some technical difficulties, and I don't believe he's on the meeting right now. He is trying to use some alternative devices to bypass whatever technical difficulties he may be having. I'm hoping, Chair, you will show Mr. Mazier the same consideration that we showed others before the meeting started.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I certainly will.

Nancy, do we...?

4:25 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Nancy Vohl

Yes, Mr. Chair, we are looking after this. I will leave it up to you, Mr. Chair, if you want to suspend for a second.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay. We'll suspend for a moment to see if they can get Mr. Mazier online so he can fully participate in the meeting.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Clerk. Thank you, everyone, for your patience.

We'll now go to the speakers list I developed. I didn't punish anyone who got disconnected or had their hand raised in the speaking order I have.

Go ahead, Mr. Battiste.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope I can go now.

I'm going to introduce the motion again. I understand that it's in both languages now.

The motion is as follows: “That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study to examine the implementation of the Mi'kmaq constitutionally protected treaty right to fish in pursuit of a moderate livelihood, in order to evaluate the current Rights and Reconciliation Agreement process and identify issues that need to be addressed and a recommended path forward; that the Committee call witnesses including senior officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, First Nations, Fisheries association, scientists and interested stakeholder groups to testify before the Committee, that the Chair be empowered to coordinate the necessary witnesses, resources and scheduling to complete this task; and that the Committee report its conclusions and recommendations to the House of Commons.”

Mr. Chair, I know I said this last week and I think we've all seen the urgency. I say this not only as a Mi'kmaq person but as someone who represents a riding that has a lot of commercial fishermen as well.

I feel we have an urgent situation that needs to be addressed. I hope we will take a look at this and be able to move forward on an urgent basis and put in place the proper meetings that we need to do this. I would suggest no fewer than five meetings to make sure we're hearing from all stakeholders.

Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

Do I hear any discussion on that motion?

4:30 p.m.

The Clerk

Mr. Chair, it's the first hybrid meeting, so I'm not sure how you want to do this, but I submit that Madame Gill has her hand up.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay. Go ahead, Madame Gill, when you're ready.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

I want to move an amendment. I think that I can move it right now.

I agree with Mr. Battiste. It's important and even urgent. We agree that the Marshall decision dates back to 1999 and that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans could have addressed certain concepts. These concepts are still unclear and are at the root of the ongoing disputes today. The Marshall decision refers to the Mi'kmaq nation, but it also refers to the Maliseet nation.

I'll read my amendment to the motion. I'll go slowly for the sake of the interpreters and so that my colleagues can hear me properly. I experienced the opposite last week, when things went very quickly.

That the motion be amended by replacing the words “that the Committee call witnesses including senior officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, First Nations” with the following: “That the Committee respectfully invite the Mi'kmaq and Maliseet First Nations to come and share their historical traditional knowledge with the Committee members, and that, in the event of a positive response, a minimum of two hours be set aside to hear this evidence, and that the Committee call witnesses including senior officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada”.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay. We've heard the amendment. Do we have any discussion on the amendment?

Go ahead, Mr. Battiste.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

I'm not sure of the purpose of the amendment. It's all covered within the current motion I've put forward. I'm wondering if there's a reason for it.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Madame Gill, do you want to respond?

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Of course, I'll respond.

The motion is less clear, which is exactly why I'm moving an amendment. The motion refers to “officials from First Nations”. This is very broad, when we think of the consultations taking place. Each band council is consulted in order to reach agreements. Obviously, in this case, we want to hear from the people representing the Mi'kmaq and Maliseet nations.

In Quebec, there are nine first nations. We won't be inviting witnesses from all the first nations in Canada, but specifically witnesses from the Mi'kmaq and Maliseet nations. I thought that it would be useful to specify this in order to establish the focus of our discussions around this virtual and physical table.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Is there any further discussion, Mr. Battiste?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

On a point of order, Mr. Chair—

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Yes, Go ahead, Mr. Beech.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

I have a question of clarification.

This particular amendment wasn't too complex. I was able follow along with it. I can get the general gist by scribbling it down as we're going. Amendments can get much more complicated than this. As a matter of process, are we going to take the time to be emailing out the text of amendments as they go? How do you see us dealing with amendments in this hybrid process, especially if the amendments are more complex than this one?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

If anybody finds the text complex, my first thought, Mr. Beech, is to maybe ask for a moment to review the text of the amendment. We could suspend to do that. You could talk among your other committee members, whether by text or otherwise, to try to get a thorough understanding of it.

I think it's a process that we have to learn to adapt to. I'm sure we're going to have many times when there will be amendments added to a motion. If we have to get it in writing afterwards and explain it, we're going to take away a lot of committee time. I'm hoping to avoid as much of that as possible.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just want to draw your attention to Mr. Johns being online. I'll take my leave from the committee now.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I'm sorry to see you go, sir, but I will welcome Mr. Johns.

Is there any further discussion on the amendment?