Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Bobby, are you withdrawing your amendment right now so we can move on to something else? It is still there to be voted on as such, if it remains.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Morrissey.
With regard to this motion, as you saw, I submitted one that's very similar. Since we're dealing with Mr. Morrissey's motion, I have a couple of proposed amendments. One would be right after—
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
If you have more than one amendment, Mr. Bragdon, can we deal with one at a time?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Okay, we'll deal with this one; this is the first one.
After “structure for corporate offshore licences and quota transfers”, there's a comma. We would amend and insert “how the Government of Canada will uphold principles of fleet separation and owner-operator policy vis-à-vis the sale of Clearwater Seafoods and whether the Government of Canada and Clearwater ownership share a common interpretation and understanding of how policies of fleet separation and owner-operator policy will be applied to Clearwater; that, for this study, the committee hold two two-hour meetings to receive witness testimony”.
It's a long one, but that's the amendment.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'll be opposing this amendment. Mr. Chair, I have concerns that we're bringing specific sales of fishing quota to this committee, and that the Conservatives have chosen one that includes the Mi'kmaq and not other sales of fishing quota or fishing licences or sales of companies to this committee. I have deep concern with that.
I think Mr. Morrissey's motion covers this off in terms of the overall scope of the impacts of sales of licences on the east coast, on the inshore fishery as well, and what I think Mr. Bragdon's trying to achieve. I don't understand why they're specifically focused on this sale; I have huge issues with it and so does our party.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Before you answer, Mr. Bragdon, Mr. Morrissey is waving his hand, so if he has a concern as well, you can answer both right afterwards.
Mr. Morrissey.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Mr. Chair, with all due respect to my colleague, he's mixing apples and oranges. The owner-operator fleet policy separation is related to the inshore fishery; it's extremely specific. Offshore corporate licences do not fall under that policy, so I don't know why we would be trying to study both when there's no relationship between the two.
Here in Canada we have offshore corporate licences that are held by corporations through licensing and quota. The fleet separation and the owner-operator policy is inshore; it's very specific. It was studied at length, and everybody understands it. These are two very different issues and to try to mix them in this study simply would do injustice to the inshore fishermen.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Bragdon Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Mr. Chair, with all due respect to my honourable colleagues, this is in direct response to the correspondence that many, if not all, members of this committee have been receiving, with direct concerns from the fishing associations. These fishing associations have been bringing these concerns to all of us. I believe we have an obligation to make sure their concerns are fully vetted and heard.
Irrespective of whether it's this particular sale or any future sales regarding any number of industry stakeholders across the country, we need to make sure we have a really good understanding and know what principles the government will be upholding in these. This is not about just one particular sale individually. This is across the spectrum. These associations have brought these concerns forward to all of us as members of this committee.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I don't see any other intervention on the proposed amendment by Mr. Bragdon.
Mr. Williamson.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
My question's actually for Mr. Johns.
Gord, are you concerned...? Is it this deal? I'm at a loss. There is really only one transaction on offer right now that potentially impacts owner-operator fleet separation in Atlantic Canada. The law that the Liberal government passed on this to protect owner-operator fleet separation is part of the study. Do you oppose a review of that just to ensure the law stands and that everyone's on the same wavelength here?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm fine with what Mr. Morrissey's proposing, Mr. Williamson. I don't believe the motives are genuine in where you're coming from, in the Conservative Party, and in terms of where you're going with this. I don't believe you would be putting this motion forward if it weren't including the Mi'kmaq. That's how we see it.
That's where I'm going with this. I'm being straightforward on this. I have deep concerns with it. I'm sharing with you my perspective on this. I will be voting against the amendment.
4:10 p.m.
A voice
Call the question.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
I have to respond to that.
You are deeply wrong. I regret that you impute motives to questions. I don't impugn your motives when I hear some of the things that come from you or your bench. This has been an issue down here with a corporate fishery that long predates the involvement of the Mi'kmaq. For 10 years I've been involved with this—long before this deal was established. There has been a constant and ongoing struggle to ensure that inshore licences stay in the hands of individuals who own those licences—that's it.
That is why, first, the Conservative government moved to clean up and end the controlling agreements that allowed the corporate fisheries, through grey zones and loopholes, to run these boats as if they owned them themselves. Then, following on that good work, mostly done by former fisheries minister Gail Shea, the Liberal government legislated that and it went from regulation into law. They, too, were so concerned about it.
This is a question of the big guy, the corporation, looking to circumvent the laws or regulations that have been in place to ensure the fishery stays communal. It's as simple as that.
You are flat, dead wrong when you suggest we would not be bringing this up were it not for this deal. We've been bringing this up collectively in Atlantic Canada for over a decade now. Ask questions. State your position, but don't impugn my motives or those of any other members on this committee, because we're looking to ensure the fishery here stays communal. Whether that is through indigenous or traditional fishers doesn't matter, but it has to stay local. A corporate fishery would change the very nature of that business out here.
I applaud and appreciate your questions, but please don't suggest the motives here are anything else than what we're stating they are. That's unfair. If that's the way we proceed as a committee, it's going to undercut the trust we have and, I think, the dialogue we ought to have on this committee.
Thank you.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Mr. Williamson, I think the concerns and questions you have will be addressed, and you could have those questions posed to witnesses under Mr. Morrissey's study. I believe you can get the answers you would like and resolve these concerns.
In terms of showing respect at this committee, I have been rudely interrupted and attacked by the Conservative bench at this committee, while I've been speaking, and have had cheap shots taken at me, which you recall. Please don't try to tell me you've treated me with respect and heard me out and heard my opinions, when that actually isn't the case.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
On that, I have never cut you off and I have always treated you with respect; in fact, I've even reached out to you behind the scenes. I regret that you take all members of this committee as the Borg and think we're all one and the same, but that's just the wrong.... Let it go.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm willing to let it go, but I'm not willing to have this member try to tell me that his party has treated me with respect the whole time. That has not happened. I've signalled my concerns, and that's the truth.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Can we stick to the actual amendment when it comes to the discussion? I don't see any more hands up to talk to the amendment.
Madame Gill.