Fisheries Committee on Oct. 29th, 2020

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Martin and Chief Marshall.

I will be completely honest with you. A motion is being moved in committee that talks about urgency. I know that you say you're not directly concerned, but how can the committee help you in a more concrete manner?

We know very well that anything to do with negotiations does not come under you, and you have said this often. Mr. Martin used the word outcast regarding moderate livelihood, and the committee has returned to that issue often. Of course, there is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the crown and first nations. This must be a nation-to-nation negotiation. You are telling me that things are going relatively well right now, but I would really like to know how the committee can support you over the short, medium and long terms, so that we would have regulations and true negotiations, and so that all the parties involved would be satisfied as much as possible—we are human. That is mainly what I wish. We have to be equipped, even if we are not the ones participating in the negotiations, of course.

You are saying that things are going relatively well, aside from a few clashes. You talked about the RCMP, Chief Marshall. I would still like to know how we can help you in a concrete way. Should part of this committee's work be passed on to the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs?

I would be very happy to hear both of you on this. It would help me expand on my knowledge.

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

I can't answer that one because I'm trying to get the translation here and [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Justin Martin]

Okay. I can cover you, Chief.

Thank you, Ms. Gill. I can appreciate the question.

I believe that the situation in Potlotek is still considered an emergency, from my understanding. The tensions are still very high, directly between the harvesters and DFO and C&P enforcement. If there is something that can be done to potentially address the independence of C&P policing activity.... They steer very clear of the negotiation and consultation tables. I've witnessed this. It's very frustrating that we can't talk directly to those enforcement officers who are putting themselves and our harvesters at risk.

That would be my primary consideration for this committee: if there is something that they could address at that specific level. I can assure you that the tensions are very, very high between the harvesters and DFO enforcement officers since the October 17 enforcement action that was taken against Potlotek and Eskasoni. For the record—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I don't mean to interrupt you, but I just want to let you know that you are right to say this should probably come under the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

You can continue. I think I have a bit of time left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

No. You've gone way over time, actually, Madame Gill. I'm sorry about that.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for six minutes or less, please.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I will listen, I'm interested.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

First, it's an honour to be joining you today from Nuu-chah-nulth territory. I want to thank you, Chief Marshall and Mr. Martin, for your important testimony today at this committee.

Where I live, you might have heard, the Nuu-chah-nulth have been in court. They won a Supreme Court decision for the right to catch and sell fish, primarily around wild salmon, which is a foundational species here. The government has spent $19 million fighting them with government lawyers. One of the judges in the Supreme Court, on an appeal from the government back in 2017, Judge Garson, cited that the government, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, knowingly sent their negotiators to the table “empty-handed”.

Do you feel that the government is being honest in their reference to reconciliation and they're sending their negotiators to the table with a mandate and supporting reconciliation? Could you speak to that, Chief Marshall?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

Especially the negotiators they've picked out right now...it's from that area.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Your mike, Chief Marshall.

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

We're not consulted right off the bat. It's still the same ones, the same way. They're dictating, and that's not the way you do business nation to nation. You have to work with us. We're there. We talk to them almost daily. They do it behind closed doors, and we want to be there in the forefront.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Do you feel that there's systemic racism in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

There is. Right off the bat, they don't recognize our livelihood fishery. We won that one in court already. Donald Marshall was charged with fishing out of season and with no licence, and that's exactly what you're doing to us now. There's no reason why. You should just let us be. We only have October 1 to December 1. It's not a big fishery; there aren't too many people fishing.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

The interpreter is struggling a lot and has asked me to say that the microphone is too close to the witness's mouth. So we are hearing a nearly robotic voice that is making the interpretation impossible.

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

How do you adjust the headset? I don't have the translation on my thing, and I'm trying to find it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, Chief, if you could make any adjustments you can to make it much easier, we would appreciate it.

Continue on.

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

As I was saying before, they have to leave us alone. Just let us fish. It's only two months: October and November. We're done December 1.

It's causing such a stir in the community, and nobody wants to be like that. It's bad enough that people suffer from anxiety and mental health issues. You know, all we want to do is fish. If I had 173 houses today, they'd be filled up. Right now, I see all these young people fishing. Even the young girls are fishing. It makes you proud. There are four to a boat also.

I saw a non-native fisherman fishing at Lac [Inaudible—Editor] the other day. He was watching. “Where are you from?” I said. “I'm from Quebec.” I explained to him what our guys were doing. I said, “Oh, yeah, these guys share their catch. Sometimes there are three or four people in a boat, and they all share equally. The guy who owns the boat usually gets a little bit more.” He says, “What do they do with their catch? Do they sell it? Do they give it away or whatever they want to do with it?” It just so happened that a boat arrived. One guy came off the boat, took a crate of lobster and said, “Does anybody want some lobster?” You could see a tear coming down this guy's face, and he started helping the guys load up the truck.

That tells you right there.... This is the kind of fishery we want. That's what he said. “I wouldn't mind doing something like this in our community,” he said.

I was blown away by that. He was blown away also. He couldn't hold back his tears, and this was a grown man—a young guy, actually.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you for sharing that story.

The Mi'kmaq Rights Initiative is seeking consensus—that's my understanding—on the best ways to implement the aboriginal treaty rights for the Mi'kmaq. Can you talk about what progress has been made in the last 20 years? Do you believe that the study by FOPO—our committee here today—has any benefit to add to the work you do, or could it undermine the progress that you've made or the process that you're in?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

It wasn't [Technical difficulty—Editor] with our plan. They helped out quite a bit. [Technical difficulty—Editor] the process also, and our plan. You'd have to write, kind of, literature on it.

I told the guys—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I apologize for speaking up again. However, as the interpreter is saying, there is a problem with the sound.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Now I'm not getting any translation.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

The interpreter cannot hear, even though he is an anglophone.