Fisheries Committee on Oct. 29th, 2020

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] translation here [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Sorry about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We have to be really careful with that mike, Chief. It's good to have it close to your mouth but not covered with your hand or your finger or whatever you're holding it with.

I'll let you finish your statement.

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

I'm doing my best.

I forget what I was saying now.

Oh, yeah, the fisheries.... They work closely with the communities doing not just that, but other stuff also [Technical difficulty—Editor]. My portfolio is culture and heritage. We started doing the graveyards—graves and the process for all that. What do you do when you find a gravesite? That's all done now. Actually, we just had a ceremony not that long ago. Prior to that, you wouldn't have even been involved. That's only two [Technical difficulty—Editor] fishery. There's a bunch more and I could keep going on.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

I was interrupted a couple of times.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I know. I let you go on for that reason.

Now we'll go to the five-minute round.

Mr. Williamson, you have five minutes or less, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Chief Marshall and Mr. Martin, thank you for joining us tonight.

I'm relatively new to the committee so I feel like a lobster thrown into the boiling pot. But Chief, listening to you, you sound an awful lot like traditional or commercial fishermen in Atlantic Canada who similarly complain about DFO and their stubbornness and inaction and sometimes communication that goes one way. So there are some common elements already.

Following up on some questions that Mr. d'Entremont asked about conservation, which was put in place during the 1970s by scientists to ensure the lobster fishery remained viable, to save it as well or at least to turn it around and to ensure that the lobster fishery was there in the future and would continue to be there and remain prosperous. Can you talk to me about the importance of fishing seasons and whether you see a role for fishing seasons in the conservation of the lobster catch in Atlantic Canada?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

I could talk about where we're at, where we're fishing at. It's very minimum that we're taking out of the waters right now [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I don't know if you are familiar with the area or not, St. Peters Bay and [Technical difficulty—Editor] and Arichat. That's where they're at, but they are not just taking lobster out of one little area. They're taking out the very minimum. Not everybody is fishing 70 traps either. There are guys fishing 10, 15, 30 traps. They only take what they want. Some guys come past you with the little boats they have.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Martin, did you have a comment? Go ahead.

[Justin Martin]

I'll speak directly to conservation and how the community came to the conclusion that they would like to fish two separate seasons, one in the fall and one alongside the commercial industry in the spring. Through a number of community sessions, we have analyzed conservation-based practices, including the commercial seasons, and the reasons why those seasons have been implemented by DFO with recommendations from the lobster associations.

We came to the conclusion, as a community, that they would like to follow conservation-based practices only. They would not like to follow marketability and market access-type reasoning, so they supported the common understanding that the summer or the highest water temperatures increased lobster trapability and vulnerability during the spawning cycle and the moulting cycle, and they chose to start fishing October 1, which is common in other areas of the province. There is an August-September season in the gulf, which is northern Nova Scotia. Southwest Nova Scotia season starts in the middle of October.

They understood that conservation should be a factor when they developed their plan, and they did provide seasons that they believed followed conservation-based practices to the best of our knowledge. We have yet to justify the latter to DFO.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Martin, I have two questions, just to clarify.... Because I'm running out of time, I'll just ask them one after the other and let you answer.

Is it 70 traps per fisher or per boat? I'm curious, just to get a sense of the operation.

I might have misunderstood you, so please correct me, but did you imply that you felt conservation rests on the shoulders of the traditional commercial fishermen? If you could clarify that, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

[Justin Martin]

Conservation is a management position by DFO.

Going back to your first question, it is up to 70 traps per individual with a vessel maximum of 200. That is a starting point to develop this fishery, understanding the minimal capacity for this community.

Conservation lies with the harvesters in general. By understanding the fishery, developing capacity and understanding, with experience and knowledge and using traditional indigenous knowledge, we're going to develop Mi'kmaq capacity and understanding for conservation-based practices.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That's for all harvesters—all global harvesters.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey, for five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

I must compliment Chief Marshall on his opening comments. He is correct; it's not the committee's mandate to attempt to define “moderate livelihood”.

In your presence, I also want to acknowledge the work of my colleague MP Battiste on educating those of us on the committee and myself in particular—I can only speak for myself—on recognizing more of the first nation traditional approach to resource.

My question would go back...and I take the boat as a reference to Potlotek. You reference using two seasons and you established why. The summer is warm and we understand that you move into the fall. Could you also expand on.... You have a seasonal approach to it and you have a trap limit set by yourself. How do you respond to the carapace size of lobster within your fishery?

[Justin Martin]

I can handle that one, Chief.

Knowing that very well, the Mi'kmaq are developing a science-based practice just to support conservation. We've adopted numerous commercial-type conservation measures.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Are you using the same carapace size as the commercial fishery?

[Justin Martin]

We actually adopted conservation measures that supersede the commercial industry.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, that's good to know.

I have a question on Potlotek. Since 1999, has your first nation community participated in any of the acquisition of licences from DFO that were transferred to some first nations communities following the first Marshall decision, or is the only fishery that you're involved in the one that you referenced, Chief?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

No, we did [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

It's the mike.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Outside of the fishery you described with 27 people using up to 70 traps, is your first nation community also exercising a fishery with access to the fishery that was transferred by DFO?

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

We do have a commercial fishery, but we only employ 23 fishermen, which is not enough to go around the community.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

So there are two. So your first nation community had access to lobster from true licences that were transferred by DFO prior to the fishery that you are now—

[Chief Wilbert Marshall]

Yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

You did. Okay.

You spoke quite a bit about even young women participating in the fishery, which is great. In your first nation community, do I take it that all of the fishers involved in your fishery are first nations fishers?