Fisheries Committee on May 2nd, 2024

[Greg Taylor]

Well, I can tell you a story that I think really captures it. I work with the Lake Babine Nation. Eighty-five percent of Skeena sockeye return to their territory to spawn.

Sockeye stocks in their territory are composed of a large, enhanced component and wild populations that they've relied on from time immemorial. They are at a point now where they're seriously considering shutting down their enhancement facilities because all the enhancement facilities are doing is driving fisheries in Alaska and in British Columbia, which in turn is depleting their wild populations.

This is having a serious impact. First nations in Canada are being forced into untenable decisions and considerations by these harvests in Alaska. Other first nations I deal with are also having the same issues in terms of the interceptions of their wild populations coming back and not even reaching Canada. When they do, their subsistence fisheries are being compromised.

First nations in Canada, whether they be on the coast and rely on commercial fisheries that are no longer really.... They're a shadow of what they were in the past. Whether they're food fisheries in the main stem or... People in the spawning territories are seeing such depletion that they don't even want enhancement because enhancement just begets more harvest, which begets more depletion of their wild populations. These are the kinds of very difficult decisions first nations are facing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you. We're a little bit over time.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for the testimony.

Taylor, on Tuesday Chief Frost was here, and she said that DFO had not had any enforcement on the Yukon River that she is aware of and, in the past number of years, had in fact requested enforcement from C and P on the river. What is your experience, and what would be the impact of no enforcement on the river?

[Greg Taylor]

Well, this is going a little bit further afield, but we see it on the Fraser River, where there are high levels of illegal, unreported and unregulated fisheries, and where there are illegal fisheries that are impacting endangered stocks. There is literally no enforcement.

There are other issues on the north coast, where we see a lack of monitoring in commercial fisheries.

Canada is not putting in place its own policies in regard to monitoring, management and enforcement of fisheries, and it's unfortunate. Canada just needs to institute its own policies.

Just implement your policies, Canada, and we'd be in good shape. It's just that DFO refuses to do it. It's as simple as that.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Taylor.

The witness testimony is great, but I did give notice—and I apologize to the witnesses—at the end of the last meeting that I would move to continue the discussion on my motion of April 18 on elvers, and I am doing it today.

Perhaps we can have a quick discussion and a vote on MP Kelloway's amendment to the main motion. We can do this without disrupting the witnesses too much, so I'll put forward a motion that we resume debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'll ask the clerk to record the vote.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I just want to make sure I'm voting on the right thing.

Are we voting to resume debate or are we voting on Mr. Kelloway's amendments?

[The Clerk]

We're voting to resume debate.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay, I understand.

That's why we're debating it.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm going to you, Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It's on my amendment. I move the following amendment:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government provide a comprehensive response to the committee's report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

That's not the amendment you made.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's the one I'm going to make. I jumped the gun a bit. Do you have the...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Rick will give it to you.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Can we suspend for a couple of seconds, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll go to the vote on the amendment first.

Do you want to read it out?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we'll go to the vote.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'm sorry, but I was expecting Mr. Kelloway to reread his amendment before we voted on it.

[The Clerk]

He chose not to.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.

So I will have to look through my papers to read it again.

I was told that abstaining was a vote. I'm just trying to determine if my amendment still stands if I vote in favour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Do you need a moment, Ms. Desbiens?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

If I abstain, I think it will be all over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll wait for a moment while Ms. Desbiens gets up to speed.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6, yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Ms. Barron, go ahead.