Fisheries Committee on June 13th, 2024

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. Maybe I have a minute or so left.

You mentioned the idea of a conservation hatchery. Again, we've heard about the potential for restoration using hatcheries. There are different interpretations and different types of hatcheries, but a conservation hatchery is certainly one thing that I know is receiving serious interest in the territory.

I wonder if you can tell me a bit more about the idea, the vision and the plans for a Yukon River conservation hatchery.

[Nils Clarke]

Thank you.

Cognizant of the fact that I likely have less than a minute, I would repeat my comments about the fruitful conversations we're having with Kwanlin Dün.

The Department of the Environment officials have met with all 14 Yukon first nations. There are 11 self-governing and three non-self-governing first nations. We believe it's about 7-7 as far as support for hatcheries is concerned, but we have certainly heard loud and clear that we have do something, because the Yukon River salmon are in danger of extirpation. That would obviously be absolutely devastating for all Yukoners, but certainly for all Yukon first nations persons, who have been here since time immemorial.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

We will now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Good evening, minister. It's always a pleasure to have you here.

Since I'm from Quebec and I represent the province's interests in fisheries, I want to know whether you and your Quebec counterpart have been in contact to discuss the fishery and the issues concerning Quebec salmon.

[Nils Clarke]

Thank you so much for that question, Madame Vice-Chair Desbiens.

I am certainly open to sharing the opportunity to receive the experiences of my Quebec counterparts. I must say that I have not had a lot of meetings with the Quebec counterparts, but I and our department are open to sharing experiences and possible solutions to move forward on the path to restoration. I'm cognizant of the fact that Quebec may very well have similar circumstances.

Thank you very much for that suggestion. Of course, it's important to receive, process and, hopefully, use some of the experiences of our friends and colleagues from across this country.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Your comments on this topic are quite insightful.

We don't necessarily have the same issues in Quebec. The fishery is different, but we certainly share some common ground that we can explore together.

Other witnesses spoke of stepping up efforts to work with the United States on implementing a more effective and vigorous system to address both climate change and the impact of overfishing. There are indeed issues related to overfishing and bycatch. History seems to be repeating itself.

Are you keeping in touch with the United States? Have any steps been taken recently in this area?

[Nils Clarke]

I think it was in my response to Vice-Chair Arnold that I provided a fair bit of information on that.

I can confirm that in February, Governor Michael Dunleavy, the Governor of Alaska, attended Whitehorse with three of his commissioners. The transportation commissioner and the fish and game commissioner were there. That was the first in-person meeting that had occurred between Alaska and Yukon in a number of years.

We had conversations on infrastructure, on Yukon River salmon and on a number of topics. That's when, in speaking to Commissioner Vincent-Lang at that time, he advised that notwithstanding the concerns and the push-back he had received from Alaskan first nations villages between Eagle and Nome, which I talked about previously, they were very much opposed to those restrictions. It was deemed to be contrary to indigenous harvesting rights in Alaska, but they are of the view that we must proceed with this agreement to try to reach 70,000 fish passing Eagle, Alaska. This last summer, it was only 15,000.

Therefore, the answer to your question is yes, we are having meetings with our Alaskan counterparts. I've met some by Zoom. I've met in person with Commissioner Vincent-Lang, and I meet with other commissioners as well. This is because, notwithstanding that we have an international relationship with Alaska, it's an incredibly important partner. We believe that the more in-person and Zoom dialogue we have with Alaska, the greater the likelihood we'll have of success in avoiding the extirpation of the Yukon River salmon.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I gather that the United States is showing some interest in this topic. You're taking a proactive approach and looking for a solution.

Is that right?

[Nils Clarke]

I'm sorry. I didn't have the translation.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'll start again.

I gather that you're in solution mode and that you're taking a proactive approach with regard to the United States. You aren't looking for courtesy or diplomacy. You're really looking for a concrete solution.

Is that right?

[Nils Clarke]

Absolutely.

As I said, the three commissioners and the Governor of Alaska came to Whitehorse in February. I plan to return the visit. I'll be in Juneau, Fairbanks or Anchorage and meet with my counterparts there to continue the advocacy to advance this file. Speaking for myself, I am cautiously optimistic that we are moving in a positive direction.

The answer is yes, we're having positive discussions with our Alaskan friends and the Yukon government on a number of topics involving wildlife and wildlife preservation. That's why we want to have a role. I know MP Hanley is passionate on this topic as well, having travelled to Washington with a Yukon delegation within the last year.

Yes, we recognize that concrete discussions have to occur with Alaska.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that, Madame Desbiens.

Before I go to Miss Barron, we're on the 5:30 mark. I need unanimous consent to go beyond that time. We're good to go until 5:50. We'll have almost another 10 minutes with Minister Clarke, and then 10 minutes of drafting instructions, if everybody is in agreement.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. That's agreed.

We'll go now to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please, with Minister Clarke.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister Clarke. Thank you for being here.

For my first question, Minister, I heard you speaking to this a bit already, but we have already heard witnesses to date—the chiefs, first nations representatives and so on—talking about the serious hardship and strain that the lack of access to salmon places on their communities, culturally and traditionally, on their language and on food security. There are many ways in which the lack of access to salmon is impacting these communities.

You spoke about this in the Whitehorse Daily Star article, which I have with me today. You talked about “the great sacrifice of Yukon First Nations”.

I know you spoke a bit about what the Yukon government is doing. Perhaps you might want to add a piece or two to that. I'm wondering if you can share what you feel the federal Liberal government needs to be doing to ensure that first nations are not disproportionately impacted by this agreement.

[Nils Clarke]

Thank you, MP Barron, for the question.

What did I say in the Whitehorse Star? In any event, hopefully, they were reasonable things.

Yukon first nations, over the course of the last 30 years now—and it has occurred over the last 30 years—have absolutely made the ultimate sacrifice with respect to subsistence harvesting. What I would say is that Yukon first nation governments and citizens have already paid the so-called ultimate price or have made the most significant sacrifice. That's why it has been incredibly important for us to dialogue with Alaska, because we want to have Alaska first nation villages and first nation governments and beneficiaries and Yukon first nation persons to have the benefit.

Absolutely, it is culture. You have heard from the prior witnesses. It's the Little Salmon Carmacks First Nation. It's the Tr'ondëk Hwëch'in, where they had a commercial salmon fishery. There are pictures from the 1930s, the 1940s, the 1950s and even into the 1960s of really substantial fishing camps on the Yukon River, the Pelly River and the Stewart River, which are not occurring.

As I think I said in my prior comments, yes, as far as the general Pacific salmon restoration theory goes, we will continue to lobby the federal government to provide resources for Yukon to continue with our work—solid work—for restoration. The answer to your question, MP Barron, is that the Yukon first nation governments and their citizens have borne the price and the responsibility, starting 30 years ago. The fishery just got smaller and smaller and essentially became non-existent.

That's why I, as the Minister of Environment for the Yukon, and our government want to play an important role.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I feel that there were some important points that you made there.

Minister, there was a brief presented to us as a committee from the Yukon Salmon Sub-Committee. It said:

The Government of Yukon asserts that the Government of Canada is responsible for salmon, and accordingly takes little action to protect salmon in the regulation of Yukon land uses like mining. The Government of Canada defers to the Government of Yukon when it comes to decisions over land use in Yukon. The result is that salmon habitat in Yukon is not well protected, with neither Government actively taking responsibility.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that submission and the critique that the Government of Yukon is not actively taking responsibility for protecting salmon habitat.

[Nils Clarke]

Thank you for that question.

As I've stated a few times today, in my time in this ministry, I have no time for and I have no intention of continuing to just say that the federal government is the only responsible party, but they are the senior level of government and they do have that responsibility. It is easy for the Yukon government to say “we will defer” and “we will not do anything”, but I think I've provided some insight as to what we are doing.

We are working with Yukon first nations to address some of the concerns, including improving fish passage across Yukon hydroelectric projects; building relationships to discuss the feasibility of conservation hatcheries, which you've heard about from me over the course of my testimony here; protecting areas of cultural importance in our fish habitat management program; and working with all our partners to develop a Yukon River salmon rebuilding plan.

As I said, I have no interest in just having the simple answer that that Department of Fisheries and Ocean and the federal government are the only parties that can come up with reasonable solutions.

Just to repeat myself, I believe it has been incredibly important to open those lines of dialogue with the great state of Alaska with in-person meetings and maintaining those lines of communication, because that's probably how the biggest headway has been made in the last number of years.

I accept some of the criticism, but absolutely want to move forward and occupy more of the space for all Yukon first nation governments and for all Yukoners.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

Our time in public has now come to an end. We will have to suspend in a moment and go in camera for drafting instructions.

I want to thank Minister Clarke for his time here today and for sharing his knowledge of the Yukon salmon and the pros and cons and the ups and downs of what's happening in that particular stock in their area.

I'll allow Minister Clarke to leave at his leisure.

[Nils Clarke]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak and to provide testimony to the committee. I wish all the best to all the MPs as you finish this spring and summer session.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]