Fisheries Committee on Sept. 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 116 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Please address all comments through the chair.

Today we're studying derelict and abandoned vessels. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 27, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of derelict and abandoned vessels.

I want to welcome our witnesses here today.

From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Mr. Brooks, director, marine environmental and hazards response; Ms. Nghiem, director general, response; and Ms. Verville, compliance and enforcement. On Zoom, we have Stephanie Hopper, director general, small craft harbours program. From the Department of Transport, we have Mr. Henein, director, marine protection and environmental policy; Sean Rogers, executive director, legislative, regulatory and international affairs; and Joanne Weiss Reid, director, operations and regulatory development.

Thank you for taking time to appear today.

Ms. Nghiem, I believe you are the official who is delivering remarks. You have five minutes or less for your opening statement.

You have the floor.

[Kathy Nghiem, Director General, Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name is Kathy Nghiem. I'm the director general of response for the Canadian Coast Guard. My colleagues and I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee.

As you know, authorities under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act are shared between the Minister of Transport Canada, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and the Canadian Coast Guard.

The Canadian Coast Guard addresses cases that involve hazardous vessels, while Transport Canada is responsible for impacts to navigation, irresponsible vessel ownership and abandoned vessels. We also work closely with other levels of government and indigenous and coastal communities, as some areas where problem vessels are found implicate other jurisdictions.

The Canadian Coast Guard acts as a single window for notifications to the Government of Canada and receives all reports of vessels of concern. Each vessel is assessed for the risk it represents to the marine environment and public infrastructure. The vessel is also added to the Government of Canada's national inventory, which is a regularly updated public repository that is available on our website.

If the vessel doesn't represent a hazard, the case is transferred to our colleagues at Transport Canada.

Since the launching of our national inventory of problem vessels, more than 2,100 vessels have been listed. Together with partners, we're working hard to address these problem vessels. The number has now dropped to 1,358.

Since 2016, the Government of Canada has invested nearly $300 million in implementing a national strategy through the oceans protection plan to address these problem vessels.

WAHVA became law in 2019 and is helping to protect the marine environment, while reducing the burden on taxpayers. The Canadian Coast Guard has established a risk assessment methodology to prioritize vessels that pose the highest risks. Risks can include posing a hazard to the marine environment, the public, the economy, infrastructure and more. Since 2016, the Government of Canada has removed 791 wrecked, abandoned or hazardous vessels across Canada.

WAHVA makes it very clear that vessel owners have a key role to play in preventing their vessels from becoming hazardous. They must maintain their vessel, keep it in good working order and dispose of it responsibly at the end of its life cycle. Owners are responsible for the costs of addressing their problem vessel. This includes cleanup or repairs and any necessary remediation action taken by the Canadian Coast Guard.

The Canadian Coast Guard works with owners to mitigate the risks posed by a problem vessel using a graduated approach to enforcement. If the owner is unknown or fails to undertake reasonable steps to address hazards created by their vessel, the Canadian Coast Guard will take immediate action to prevent, mitigate or eliminate the risks.

In 2023, the Canadian Coast Guard launched its compliance and enforcement program to ensure that owners of hazardous vessels are held accountable. Under law, the Canadian Coast Guard can now issue an administrative monetary penalty to an owner who fails to comply with a direction to take actions to address hazards created by their vessels.

It's worth noting that most Canadians are responsible vessel owners who take the necessary steps to address any issues with their vessels. Our priority will always be to work collaboratively with the vessel owner.

Our approach also strikes a balance with the polluter pays principle, meaning those who create hazards to the marine environment will bear the costs of their actions. In those instances, the law enables the Canadian Coast Guard to cost recover its expenses from the owner or their insurer.

The Canadian Coast Guard is making tangible progress on addressing problem vessels that pose the highest risk to the marine environment or to public safety across Canada. This includes the use of innovative technologies for remote vessel monitoring and expanding our partnerships with indigenous and coastal communities. We work closely with our colleagues at Transport Canada to implement a regime that works with vessel owners to protect Canada’s marine environment from the risks and hazards posed by wrecked, abandoned and hazardous vessels.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that. You had seven seconds to spare, and it's abnormal for anyone to give an opening statement in less than five minutes. I want to thank you for that.

Before I go to our first round of questioning, I want to welcome Mr. Godin, who is subbing in for somebody. I don't know who.

It's good to have Blaine Calkins back again, sitting in for somebody. He's quite familiar with the fisheries and oceans committee as he served on it for a number of years.

Of course, we have Dr. Hanley, who is subbing in for Patrick Weiler, I believe. Mr. Hanley is a regular member, but he's been moved to another committee and Mr. Weiler will be the new member. He gets to fill him in for him now for the first time—the first day.

We'll now to go our rounds of questioning.

Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to extend a warm welcome to our guests and visitors in our audience today.

Mr. Chair, on behalf of the entire committee, I'd like to extend our deepest condolences to the family of the individual who was lost at sea on the Coast Guard ship, the Vincent Massey, which docked in St. John's recently. Our deepest condolences to the family and to all who loved that dear individual who served his community.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank everyone who was involved in the search and rescue effort.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is this: According to Transport Canada's departmental results report in 2022 and 2023, Transport Canada, Fisheries and Oceans, and the Canadian Coast Guard aimed to remove 110 vessels of concern by March 31, 2023. What was the percentage of the desired removals that actually got removed in the 2023 fiscal year?

Mr. Henein.

[Colin Henein, Director, Marine Protection, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

My name is Colin Henein. I'm the director of marine protection policy at Transport Canada, so I'm the policy guy. I'm probably the last guy to answer the question on specific numbers of vessel removals.

I'll pass it to my colleague, Joanne, who will be able to answer that from the TC side, and then Robert Brooks will speak to that from the Coast Guard side.

[Joanne Weiss Reid, Director, Operations and Regulatory Development, Department of Transport]

I'm going to pass it over to the Coast Guard to respond to this question.

Thank you.

[Robert Brooks, Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chair, just to confirm, are we asking for the totals solely for fiscal year 2023?

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Yes, it's fiscal year-end 2023, March 31.

[Robert Brooks]

Thank you very much.

Within the fiscal year of 2023, we removed 117 vessels. I think, as Director General Nghiem had mentioned, we've removed, in total, 791 vessels since 2016.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay. In 2022, $2 billion was promised by the Trudeau Liberal government to renew the oceans protection plan. This is in addition to $1.5 billion that was given out a few years before that. How are you on funds? Do you have enough funds to keep you going in this program, or are you short?

[Kathy Nghiem]

Yes. The government has invested over $300 million in a combination between the oceans protection and the renewal of the oceans protection plan. During that, since 2016, the Canadian Coast Guard, Transport Canada and the small craft harbours program have been able to fully allocate that funding to address abandoned and wrecked vessels. We've been able to spend our full allocation every year.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I'll ask Ms. Hopper and Ms. Weiss Reid, and you can both respond separately.

How do you feel the efficiency of the program is? Having to work between two departments, could it be better? Would it better serve its purposes if it was all under Transport Canada or all under the Canadian Coast Guard and Fisheries and Oceans?

[Stephanie Hopper, Director General, Small Craft Harbours Program, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I can start.

For our perspective, for the small craft harbours abandoned and wrecked vessels removal program, it's going well. We receive approximately $250,000 a year. We receive applications. We've gone over the objective. With the oceans protection plan 1.0, the objective was to remove 50 vessels, and we ended up removing 154. We have worked directly with the harbour authorities and the applicants, and we've had great success since the beginning of the program. Since the budget 2022, with oceans protection plan 2.0, the objective was to try to remove 15 vessels per year, and to date, we have removed 41.

I'm sure there are always efficiencies to be gained in different areas, but from our perspective, it's been a quite successful program to date.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Could I hear from Transport Canada?

[Joanne Weiss Reid]

Thank you for the question.

The Minister of Transport regulates shipping and navigation. We jointly administer the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act with the Canadian Coast Guard. The Canadian Coast Guard, under its jurisdiction, deals with vessels that are hazardous, and Transport Canada addresses vessels that are abandoned and dilapidated.

We work very closely with the Canadian Coast Guard, nationally and in the regions, to ensure that we address the vessels appropriately within our respective mandates.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

It looks like you didn't have any projects that were planned that didn't get completed, by the sounds of it.

Again, Ms. Weiss Reid, you indicated that you exceeded your goals. Are you telling us that you're much more efficient with the public purse in this program than you expected to be? Is that possible?

[Stephanie Hopper]

I can't speak to that, but in terms of the objectives, I think, when we set out on the program in 2017, because there can be different.... We weren't sure in terms of the number of applications or how it could all be managed, but certainly, from experience and from what we've seen, we have been quite successful in delivering on and using the full funding that's been provided to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Hardie, go ahead for six minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here. I will not even attempt to direct the question, but if you know the answer, then please speak up.

Can you give us a rough idea, at least, of the ratio of the whole catalogue of abandoned and derelict vessels? What percentage would be pleasure craft versus, if you like, commercial, everything from fishing boats to small freighters or whatever?

[Robert Brooks]

Thank you very much for the question.

The national inventory has approximately 1,350 vessels within it today. Roughly speaking, 34% of those that we've removed, we did not know the materials of them. Thirty-one per cent were fishing vessels, 14% were sailing vessels, 9% were pleasure craft, 8% were motor boats and 1% were barges.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

All right. I guess the image that we have, on the west coast at least, is that people grow tired of the boat, and the boat is tired anyway, so they just leave it somewhere. The impression that we get, at least on the west coast, is that the majority of the vessels have been pleasure craft of some sort. Is that a fair assessment?

[Robert Brooks]

Thank you again for the question.

Within the remaining inventory today, approximately 24% are sailing vessels.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

They're basically pleasure craft.

[Robert Brooks]

That's correct, sir.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Okay.

Can anybody speak to the possibility that some of the problems around abandoned and derelict vessels might be related, if you like, to the devolution of small craft harbours from the federal government to local authorities? Do local authorities face an imbalance of the issue we're trying to deal with here?

I'll look up and down the line. You all look puzzled.

Ms. Nghiem, were you...?