Evidence of meeting #116 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was owner.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You could ask Stephanie Hopper for that one on small craft harbours.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours Program, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We're responsible for the abandoned and wrecked vessels removal program within the small craft harbours that are under DFO's responsibility. I can't speak to those that are outside of our inventory, but certainly, I would expect that there would be similar issues elsewhere.
In terms of whether it's directly related to having divested small craft harbours in the past, certainly, if we have a higher number of harbours.... We have specifically divested over 1,100 harbours over the past 30-some years within the program, but I can't speak to whether some of those 1,100 would be experiencing the same challenges in terms of derelict vessels or not.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
With respect to Ms. Barron bringing forward the notion to study this, we did look into it a few years ago, although not in a really official way. I think this committee probably needs to bring some municipal partners into this because I think they're stakeholders.
I recall in the testimony we heard that some of these abandoned vessels become homes for homeless people. You have that aspect to it. I don't know if anybody on this panel can speak to the degree to which that is still a problem, but if you basically take a derelict vessel away and deal with it, you're making somebody homeless. Is that a factor here?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you very much for the question.
Certainly as we work through the challenges in this area with our colleagues at Transport Canada and small craft harbours, we do see an increasing number of situations where vessels have become live-aboards for people who are facing a homelessness crisis in certain communities.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When we last visited this, one of the biggest challenges of dealing with derelict vessels—and I'm thinking more specifically of pleasure craft—was the difficulty of dealing with fibreglass. There were very few processes available to actually recycle or break these down. They ended up, I think, just breaking them up, sawing them up and burying them.
Are you aware of any developments in that area?
Mr. Henein, you're nodding, so perhaps you can tell us that.
Director, Marine Protection, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Yes. Thanks for the question.
We know there are some challenges with fibreglass vessel recycling. There aren't a lot of facilities that will accept them. When you find a facility that does, sometimes the value of the vessel is actually less than the cost of the recycling. In addition, the challenge is that new fibreglass is seen to be cheaper and of better quality than recycled fibreglass. That's a bit of an issue.
What Transport Canada has done on the R and D side is launch an innovative solutions Canada challenge to look into potential solutions for recycling fibreglass vessels. We had two prototypes that were actually fairly successful. They were either for repurposing the fibreglass into other industrial materials or reducing them back to their original components so that you could make new fibreglass out of them. At this time, we don't have a mandate to commercialize that technology. That's with the folks who were participating in the challenge, but certainly in the future, as R and D funds become available, for example, through the vessel remediation fund, one of the purposes some of those funds are put to would be improving R and D when it comes to fibreglass recycling.
Liberal
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses. It's invaluable to have them here with us today.
It's a fairly broad topic. Of course, it won't come as a surprise if I focus on the St. Lawrence River, the gulf, the estuary and all the traffic in that area. Which one of you is the most specialized in everything to do with the St. Lawrence River? I want to know whom to direct my questions to.
I don't think that there's any interpretation.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I'm just noticing that my microphone is coming up instead of Caroline's, so I keep turning mine off, and hers.... I think there's a bit of a mix-up of the microphones happening as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I believe you. There are others who wouldn't, but I do.
Okay. We'll start from the top, Madame Desbiens.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here.
It won't come as a surprise if I ask you about the St. Lawrence River, the gulf, the estuary and everything of that nature. I want to know which of you is the most specialized in marine traffic in that area, just so I know whom to direct my questions to. Let's take this approach. Every time I ask a question, whoever feels most qualified to answer it can weigh in.
First, you said that 24% of cases involve pleasure craft as opposed to commercial vessels. Does this proportion also apply to the St. Lawrence, or is the situation different on the Pacific side?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
The numbers that I have don't have the details broken down by region, but if possible we could follow up in writing with those details.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
There isn't any interpretation, Mr. Chair.
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you for your question.
The numbers that I have do not have the specific regional breakdowns to answer that question in detail.
Mr. Chair, if it would be possible, we'll follow up in writing. Thank you.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you. I would appreciate it. It's one of my questions and it ties in with the rest of my comments.
Existing wrecks already pose a number of risks, but there are also future or potential risks. The umbrella legislation is the Pilotage Act. Pilots have a number of concerns in this area.
I personally met with members of the Corporation des pilotes du Bas‑Saint‑Laurent. The concern is that private pilot training courses have fewer requirements, for example with regard to French. Furthermore, corporation pilots no longer need to be in attendance for new pilot assessments, which greatly increases the risk.
Is this risk one of your concerns, in order to avoid further disasters and accidents that could exacerbate the issue posed by wrecks?
Sean Rogers Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
Thank you. I apologize because my earpiece is not working.
As I understand the question right now, there is a requirement for proficiency in both French and English for pilotage along the St. Lawrence, that is, in the compulsory pilotage zones covered by the Laurentian Pilotage Authority. My understanding is that this is not changing. I know that there have been concerns expressed in the past with the transition of the reform in pilotage and that it's changing, but nothing is changing.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
My main point is that the corporation's pilots are no longer required to attend the certification assessment for new pilots. They can no longer personally assess the adequacy of the French and the potential impact on the quality of communication on the vessels operating on the St. Lawrence. At least, that's what they told me.
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
Again, you have my apologies, but if I understand the question, with the pilotage reforms, the responsibility for the regulation of pilotage passed from the pilotage authorities to Transport Canada. When that transition happened, we essentially moved the system in its entirety, as it existed then, over to Transport Canada. This was in June or July 2022.
Since then we've been working on establishing collaborative processes with the Laurentian Pilotage Authority, the shipping associations and the Canadian Marine Pilots' Association to set up these committees to look at the issue of training and qualifications, recognizing that proficiency in both official languages is an important element of safety along the St. Lawrence Seaway.
Pilotage remains extremely safe in Canada by the numbers. If you look at the incident rate, it's less than 0.1%, which is to say that 99.9% of all pilotage assignments on the St. Lawrence are successfully completed. We have yet to see any evidence that language proficiency has become an issue.
I'll turn back to the Coast Guard for this one, but when communicating with the pilotage authority and ordering a pilot, it's the langue de votre choix. There are no restrictions on the language, and then if a marine communications and traffic services—
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Is this the case even for private training?
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
Is this about the private pilotage and the four north-shore ports?
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
That's what the people from the corporation are saying. There used to be official training, but now private transport companies and foreign companies can train their own pilots. The pilots still need a certification, but the St. Lawrence pilots no longer have the—