Evidence of meeting #116 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was owner.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mr. Chair, we would have to follow up with the precise details.
Thank you.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I have it from that same report. It was $25.2 million, which represents 61% of the proposed spend, and it yielded 25% of the desired outcomes.
I'm not sure this program is working as well as my colleague Mr. Morrissey said it was.
How many projects were planned in 2022-23 that didn't get done? Do you know the names of the projects you had in mind for that fiscal year? Do you have a list of them? If you can't provide them here now, you can provide them in writing.
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We'd be happy to follow up specifically with that.
Maybe I could offer a clarification that may assist. Perhaps the numbers that you're referring to in the Transport Canada report were focused on the abandoned boats program, which was one component of the funding that was allocated to all departments and, therefore, may not be comprehensive and may not include all of the vessels removed by the Canadian Coast Guard, small craft harbours and Transport Canada as a total effort.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Mr. Brooks, what progress has been made on removing the remaining 83 vessels of concern since March 31, 2023? Of the ones that didn't get removed and were a part of the failed goal, do you know how many have since been removed?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Chair, I would ask my colleagues at Transport Canada to speak to that specifically, because I do believe it is part of the abandoned boats program we're speaking about.
Director, Operations and Regulatory Development, Department of Transport
In terms of the vessels planned for removal, I'd have to get back to you in writing on that.
Thank you.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
How much more time do I have, Mr. Chair?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You have 14 seconds, so I'd say not enough for you to get out a question.
We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can use his 14 seconds. Is that good? Thank you very much.
I spent part of my career with B.C.'s public auto insurer, and there are some similarities in tracing ownership and tracing vehicles between vessels and cars and trucks.
Is there the equivalent of a vehicle identification number on a boat when it's manufactured?
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
Yes, that's what the pleasure craft licence is. The terminology is perhaps a bit of a misnomer, but the pleasure craft licence is effectively a registration number, and those are the numbers that you often see on both sides of a vessel, five or six digits long.
September 18th, 2024 / 5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Those numbers are not actually affixed, as in etched into the hull of the vessel. Is that correct?
Where I'm going with this is very simple. After dealing with a lot of difficulties with chop shops and and vehicle registration numbers being reallocated to other vehicles, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia came up with a system that basically, first of all, required the manufacturers to have hidden vehicle identification numbers so that it wasn't easy for somebody to scrub the identity of whoever owned that vehicle.
Secondly, the licensing needs to be.... I'm sorry. I'm getting into recommendations here but it sounds like you guys are—pardon the expression—at sea on this issue of trying to identify the people who actually owned the boats that are found abandoned. There should be insurance. Insurance on these vehicles should be mandatory, and with a licence that represents the insurance policy so that the only way to pass that vessel from one person to another is to relinquish the licence, have a new one issued, make sure that the provincial sales tax is paid, etc.
We went through this discussion with you guys a few years ago, and it sounds like on the issue of trying to identify owners, nothing has changed since then. Now is your opportunity to tell me I'm wrong on that one.
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
That is the intent of the current regulatory amendments to the pleasure craft licensing, to small vessel regulations with respect to pleasure craft licensing. It will create AMPs. It will create a mandatory requirement where one didn't exist before to report a change in ownership to the database. It will eventually result in the transition away from lifetime licences, which is part of the issue with respect to tracing the owner in the first place. The creation of a five-year validity period, where you have to renew your licence every five years, is meant to get at some of these issues the member has asked about.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
What does it cost to basically abandon—well, not abandon but to decommission—the average pleasure craft?
If somebody wants to do the right thing, they have this boat that's come to the end of its natural life cycle and they want to dispose of it in a responsible way, do we know what that costs?
Director General, Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would offer that the price varies significantly.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
It varies significantly.
You can see that there's obviously a huge incentive to just basically beach it somewhere and walk away, especially if there's no real way in place yet to trace back to the owner.
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
We understand the current shortcomings of the way the pleasure craft licensing database is operating, and that's one of the reasons why we put forward these regulatory amendments, to try to close some of these gaps.
Liberal
Executive Director, Legislative, Regulatory and International Affairs, Department of Transport
The regulations were published in Canada Gazette, part I, back on May 13, 2023. Because of the nature of the regulatory changes that were being proposed, we received over 800 comments. We're in the process of going through those comments, and our forward regulatory plan on the Transport Canada website has a tentative date for publication of the final regulations by December.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie.
We will now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Can anyone tell me how many of the 183 wrecks identified are considered hazardous wrecks?
Director General, Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We'll have to come back with the details, Mr. Chair, in writing.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Is there any operation to determine which wrecks in Quebec's St. Lawrence River contain hazardous materials?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Within how the Canadian Coast Guard operates in the St. Lawrence and in the gulf, we are continually available to receive reports of hazardous vessels or vessels of concern that are posing a pollution risk or a risk of another hazardous nature. That service is available 365 days a year, 24-7.
In particular, there are no specific cases that I'm aware of for which we have planned operations right now in those regions to remove vessels at this time.
Bloc
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say that we do know. Within the inventory, we have not prioritized in our action plan removing a vessel specifically in the St. Lawrence at this point in this year.