Evidence of meeting #116 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was owner.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you very much for the question.
What I can say is that the creation of the national inventory was a direct measure in response to the investments made through the oceans protection plan. As we embarked on that adventure to record and build this inventory, we saw an increase in the trend of vessels being entered into the inventory. In particular, between 2018-19 and 2023-24, we saw a big data entry into the inventory as we were discovering—
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
When was that $300-million allocation first budgeted?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The $300 million referenced thus far is the investment targeted to Canadian Coast Guard, Transport and small craft harbours, in order to—
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's since 2016.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Okay.
What I'm hearing you say is that the government has made an announcement that it's spending hundreds of millions of dollars to clean up derelict vessels, and I'm also hearing you say that there are more derelict vessels than ever.
Would it be fair to say that vessel owners on the coast now believe the government will clean up these vessels, and that's why there are more derelict vessels? Is the program creating more derelict vessels because people say, “Well, the government's going to pay to clean it up”? Is that the problem?
Director, Marine Protection, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
Maybe it would be helpful if I speak about the overall strategy on wrecked and abandoned vessels, which has five pillars that we're working through.
We had to establish the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act. We had to develop this national inventory and risk assessment methodology, which the Coast Guard is talking about vessels coming onto and which is the source of the number of vessels coming on versus the number of vessels coming off. That's a counting system. It allowed us to put in place some short-term funding to start addressing and removing these vessels from the list.
However, we—
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
It sounds like you built a lot of process.
Of the $300 million spent so far, how much have you spent on bureaucracy versus actually removing vessels?
Director, Marine Protection, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
I don't have the numbers in front of me of what the policy spending would be on that versus the vessel removal spending. I don't know if my colleagues would have those numbers available. However, our intention is to be able to better identify the owners so that we're able to hold them responsible for their own vessels and to only be spending government money when it comes to vessel owners who are not able to be identified. Then, as well, the final pillar of this strategy is to set up this vessel-owner finance fund so that it will be vessel owners who are contributing to the costs of removing these vessels.
Liberal
September 18th, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Let me share our condolences here with respect to the individual who lost his life on the CCGS Vincent Massey. When that happens, everyone in the Coast Guard feels it. My condolences to the family, the friends, the colleagues and those back home in Sydney, where the Canadian Coast Guard College resides in Westmount. Most individuals who are on any vessel received their training there. I know the cadets feel it, and I know the instructors feel it. My condolences to everyone.
Thank you for coming here today. One of the great benefits of being the last to ask questions in a particular round is that there were a lot of great questions that were asked around process and around investment. One of the recurring things that I hear is that substantial investments have been made over the years with respect to focusing on abandoned and derelict vessels, which I think is critical and key.
I appreciate that, and it seems to be having an impact, which is really good. When I'm looking at organizations or at processes that are designed to help alleviate or solve the problem, the leadership instructor in me sees that there are things that you're doing exceptionally well. I'd like to know, for example, what could enhance the job that each one of you and your departments do even further. That would be one.
I'm going to try to get in another question, so think about that and who is best to answer it. The other one is more of a micro question, but I think it's really important. One of the things that I've heard time and time again is that, if a company that owns a vessel goes belly up and the vessel is there and there are a lot of elements to the vessel that need to be taken care of—whether it be chemicals or so forth and so on—how do we approach that particular scenario when there isn't a particular owner who owns a vessel? They may be out of business. They may be somewhat trying to remove themselves from that particular process of owning up to an owner's responsibilities.
Maybe if we could start there, please, on the first question and the second question.... If I have time, I'll ask a third one.
Director General, Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll refer to my colleague for the first part and maybe Ms. Verville for the second part.
Director, Marine Protection, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport
What I would say is that the two main gaps that we're trying to fill right now in the wrecked, abandoned and hazardous vessels national strategy are the two regulatory pieces that are to come. We spoke about putting in place the act; that's been done. We've talked about the national vessel inventory and the risk methodology; that's under way. We've talked about short-term funding to start getting vessels out of the water; that is under way.
Where we are now is those vessel owner improvements, which my colleague was speaking to a few moments ago, to bring down that period of time so that we'll have more accurate information as to who the owners are. Then, once we have that piece in place, we're able to build this vessel remediation fund, which is part of the act and is going to allow us to have a stable funding base with owners contributing to this fund through a regulatory charge each time they license their pleasure craft or register their vessel in the vessel registry. We'll be in a position to have a regulatory charge so that those folks are contributing to vessel remediations but also to some of the more proactive pieces that we've been talking about, like, for example, public education, research and development, local capacity building or even vessel turn-in programs. Those are really the gaps that we're trying to work through in the system to actually give effect to the vision of this strategy, which is still in the process of being rolled out.
I'll pass it to my Coast Guard colleague for the second part.
Director, Compliance and Enforcement, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The Canadian Coast Guard will keep prioritizing the task of ensuring that owners take responsibility for their vessels and that the vessels are disposed of responsibly at the end of their life cycle.
With regard to your example, the vessel remediation fund will come into force shortly. If the damage is caused by oil pollution, the Coast Guard can also submit claims to the ship‑source oil pollution fund. The industry has contributed to this fund. The Coast Guard can submit claims to cover costs. The Canadian public doesn't pay for the Coast Guard's activities under these circumstances.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Okay.
I think I have five seconds left. I appreciate the answers, and I'll yield the floor.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.
We'll now go to Mr. Small for five minutes or less, please.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm seeking some clarification from Mr. Brooks.
Would you say Transport Canada's departmental results report for 2022-23 is a reliable report, Mr. Brooks?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can't comment on the reliability of the report. I would assume it's a report to Parliament, and, therefore, I would leave it at that.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I would assume it's a report that ties into the work the Canadian Coast Guard and Transport Canada are doing jointly on this file.
Would you say that's correct, Mr. Brooks?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Without the report in front of me, I'm not able to confirm that statement.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
What was the number of vessels you stated to me earlier that were removed for fiscal year 2022-23?
Director, Marine Environmental and Hazards Response, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
If I could make a clarification, with my apologies, I had previously used the figure of 117 vessels. However, I misunderstood the question. That was for 2023-24. The number I have for vessels that were removed in 2022-23 is 160.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Okay.
There's quite the discrepancy here, because according to Transport Canada's own report, only 27 vessels of concern were addressed under both departments' programs that year, and their goal was to remove 110 vessels.
Compared to the rosy picture that has been painted here today, the actual fact is that, in that fiscal year.... We don't have the results for the year just behind us here, but the percentage of the goal achieved was only 25%—just 27 out of 110 vessels of concern were removed.
I might have seemed a little bit shaken, because I was thrown by the answer Mr. Brooks gave me.
How much of the budget projection was used in fiscal year 2022-23 of the $41.6 million that's shared between both departments?