Fisheries Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Kelloway for six minutes or less.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Hello to the witnesses.

Perhaps you can finish off your answer to Mr. Small's question. Then I'll have my set of questions for you.

[Carey Bonnell]

I'm sorry. What was the question again, Mr. Small? Can you repeat that for one second?

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Mr. Bonnell, my question was this: Could the offshore fleet have been given an allocation—under the auspices of a stewardship fishery—that would be a scientific, experimental quota to supplement the trial survey and have the fishery remain as a stewardship fishery versus going commercial?

[Carey Bonnell]

This stock is now a stock in the cautious zone, within the precautionary approach framework. In every other example of fisheries in Atlantic Canada that I'm aware of—maybe in Canada as a whole—what's in the cautious zone is considered a commercial fishery. It's the second-largest biomass in Atlantic Canada and the third-largest cod stock in the world. For those reasons, I think it would be a commercial fishery.

Could it happen? I suppose, technically, it could, but the probability of it happening is very low, based on history and other practices.

Generally, a fishery in the cautious zone is a commercial fishery.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks for that.

How do trawling practices over the last 40 years—the seventies, eighties and nineties—differ specifically from today's?

[Carey Bonnell]

There are a number of things.

The volume fished, obviously, has changed massively. Pre-moratorium on northern cod, we were at over 100,000 metric tons, probably, harvested at times by the offshore sector. A sizable portion was harvested by the inshore sector as well.

The number of vessels used today.... We have two offshore groundfish boats in our fleet. The management measures in place today are nothing like they were a generation ago. We have 100% observer coverage, independent of coverage on our boat. We have dockside monitoring. We have daily hail requirements. Our vessels are monitored. When we land, we're inspected. We welcome those sorts of measures as well. There are marine-protected areas for sensitive habitat today that weren't in place pre-moratorium. We fish about 2%. In Atlantic Canada, we come into contact with about 2% of the marine environment. In a lot of our key fisheries, like redfish and yellowtail flounder, we come into contact with less than 1%.

These are sandy- and rocky-bottom environments. People have this image that we're out fishing in coral or pristine environments. That's not the case. Look to Iceland—I come back to Iceland on a regular basis. They take well over 100,000 metric tons every year using the same kind of technology we do, and they've had a sustainable fishery for a generation. It works because they have good management measures. They have good structures. They have protections and closures.

Some of the measures that have been adopted here.... Through NAFO and domestically—Mr. Burns spoke about this—we now have a 10-week spatial closure that will run from mid-April through to the end of June. That's in place. We have a minimum fish size of 43 centimetres, which is two centimetres larger than the European standard. We have a mesh size on our trawl. It's a 155-millimetre diamond mesh. I think the standard in Europe is 130 millimetres.

Where we are today.... Virtually none of those measures were in place pre-moratorium. It is a different ball game altogether, in terms of how we look at trawl-based fisheries today.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you for that.

I think that's a key item that was brought up. So far, in terms of the offshore picture.... As you put it, there's a perception that the offshore vessels are going out on the water and it's the 1970s and 1980s again. What you're saying is that, through and through, practices have changed. Technology has changed. Due diligence has changed.

I want to go to the economic benefits of the cod fishery as it relates to offshore. This is for all three of you.

What are the economic benefits, such as supply chain, people employed on vessels and in processing plants, and things of that nature? When you talk about a fair and balanced approach.... I'm wondering if you can get to some actual numbers you might have—or projected numbers you will have—for the cod fishery as it relates to the offshore fishery.

[Alberto Wareham]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with the processing side. Last year at Icewater in Arnold's Cove, we worked 26 full weeks on two shifts or the equivalent of 52 weeks a year, which is the most employment provided for a plant in Newfoundland that focuses on producing wet fish or frozen-at-sea raw material. Fifty per cent of that was locally caught inshore cod, and 50% was frozen-at-sea imported from Norway.

This year, our goal is to not import any from Norway with the quota given to the offshore and to the indigenous aboriginal groups in Labrador, so that we would produce as much local cod as we can.

What's so key about frozen-at-sea...and from what I heard at the first hearing, I think people didn't quite understand it. OCI catches the fish, and they produce it frozen-at-sea. They bring it in, and then we can decide when we produce it. That allows us to work 26 or more weeks this year. We should have more employment in Arnold's Cove with the frozen-at-sea raw material.

In the inshore season, you have to buy it when it's being landed. If you don't buy it, it goes somewhere else. As was said, the majority of the inshore landing was caught in seven weeks. There is still some quota uncaught in the inshore. We're trying to get it caught right now. There were 150 tonnes. The fishery was reopened twice since the September 27 initial closure. We're still catching cod in 3K and 3L today. The 2J part for Labrador was closed. The allocation was taken up there, but it's still open in 3K and 3L.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Right.

In terms of employment, Mr. Wareham, Ms. Lapointe and Mr. Bonnell, the actual number in terms of Newfoundlanders working, I think, is a key thing to highlight because, at the end of the day, this is about Newfoundland and Labrador, an iconic species and a gateway to economic development.

What numbers of actual people are we dealing with who will be employed as a result of the change in question?

[Alberto Wareham]

In Arnold's Cove right now, this year, we have 250 people working and 230 of them are local. They're all within an hour's radius. We have 25 or so who are temporary foreign workers, and this year is the first time we've ever had to do that, which we did. Payroll last year was $7 million, and this year it will be higher than that with our input of inshore cod.

It is significant for a community of 1,000 people. We've been the largest employer in the town since 1979, the largest taxpayer in the town since 1979 and the largest producer of inshore cod since the cod fishery started to reopen in Newfoundland in 2006.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway. That was a little bit over.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here.

I know that everyone agrees with the reopening of the cod fishery. It was long‑awaited, particularly for the fisheries economy.

As processors and associations, were you prepared for the reopening of the northern black cod fishery? If so, had you been preparing for it for a long time?

[Carey Bonnell]

I can start and maybe turn things over to Alberto.

Yes, as I indicated in my opening comments, we invested in a new $60-million vessel, the MV Calvert , with 80 crew members basically on a two-shift basis on this vessel for groundfish, including cod. We fish yellowtail flounder a portion of the year and redfish a portion of the year. However, it was envisioned to be a vessel that would be available in a reopened cod fishery as well.

That vessel is being prepared now. We're putting a small investment in the factory of the vessel, but it's being prepared to fish cod later this fall and through the winter. Yes, certainly we've been preparing and we're certainly prepared for it. There will be significant employment generated as a result on the harvesting side.

You may wish to speak to the processing side.

[Alberto Wareham]

Yes, I would just add that in Arnold's Cove, as I said in my opening remarks, we've been preparing since 1992 for this moment to come back. We spent $14 million between 2018 and 2020 to give us the latest state-of-the-art equipment so that we can compete with the best in the world, which we do.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you for your response.

So you were anticipating the opening of the cod fishery. Did you see an improvement in biomass or did you have other information?

[Carey Bonnell]

I can speak.

The information we would have had on cod was the information that was presented in the fall survey from last year, obviously, and that the stock has moved from the critical zone to the cautious zone of the precautionary approach framework. We've been monitoring the stock for the last many years, and we've seen some encouraging signs, obviously.

However, we follow the best available science, so no, we weren't preparing to go fishing a couple of years ago with stock in the critical zone necessarily. However, with the change now to the cautious zone, the PA framework and a very cautious harvest rate of 5%, we're excited about the opportunity ahead of us this year, and we're hopeful for a continuation and continued improvement of the resource in the years to come.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I also heard you say earlier that fishing changed only a small part of the biomass, compared to climate change and all the other known predators.

Do you think that the biomass will continue to improve anyway, or are you fishing out of spite, figuring that, in any case, climate change and predators will change the biomass more than you will? Is that why you forge ahead with fishing?

[Carey Bonnell]

The good thing about northern cod and some of our other fisheries is that we have an annual survey completed on the stock.

One of the things that hasn't been covered in the hearings here that we've talked about a lot in the advisory process is that last year's survey was conducted about a month earlier than normal. The general feeling amongst DFO scientists, industry and those around the table is that the actual biomass is in all likelihood larger than was picked up in the survey this past year because it went out much earlier than the normal time series, and the fish migrate in the fall. They migrate offshore a little later in the year.

We are hopeful that with the survey that's ongoing this fall, we'll get a really good, true picture of the state of the resource. We are of the view that the resource is probably stronger than indicated, but we also saw some really strong indicators in the survey, as Ms. Lapointe touched on in her opening comments, related to recruitment and other things.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Sorry to interrupt. I don't have much time. I have two minutes left.

You represent the offshore fishery. You know the history of cod, like everyone else. You know that offshore boats use relatively aggressive fishing techniques for biomass. You said that you improved the technology.

What steps can be taken to improve the technology used by offshore boats that fish on a massive scale? Are there any new technologies that we don't know about?

[Carey Bonnell]

Yes, there are a whole host of new technologies, but what I will say is that, in the past, the major issue was overfishing. In both foreign and domestic, inshore and offshore, we had significant overfishing. As I mentioned, we had exploitation rates in excess of 50% leading up to the moratorium. We're talking about a fishery today with an exploitation rate of 5% with management conservation measures that are far more advanced than they ever were in the past.

We'll stand behind mobile gear fishing within Canada and globally as a responsible, sustainable form of food production. All forms of production.... We could spend a session here talking about the pros and cons of gillnets, which have lot of negative connotations as well but, if done right, can be managed correctly. It's the same with trawl-based fishing. The technology, the techniques, the approach and the management measures are far greater today than they ever were in the past, and I'd stand by that.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

I have just 30 seconds left.

Ms. Lapointe, have you seen things improve recently? Rather, have you seen the cod biomass improving for some time?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for your question.

I would say that, when we look at the data, we really see an increase in recruitment, in biomass, since 2020. In addition, the assessment carried out by Fisheries and Oceans Canada in the fall, a year ago, to change the limit reference point with the new data that it incorporated into its analysis, showed that the stock status has now been in the cautious zone since 2016.

As Mr. Bonnell said, every year, we keep track of the department's scientific analyses and assessments of this fishery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

As we're going through the lines of questions today, I'm finding myself constantly going back and reflecting on what is at the core of what we're talking about today. I'm writing down over and over again the fact that we're looking at the economic well-being of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and, of course, the sustainability of the cod stocks to ensure that we have a fishery that's there not just for today but for generations to come. I think that, from what I'm hearing, there are some core values that we all have here today, which is good to hear. As we are discussing this today, there is some contradictory information that's coming forward, so I'm trying to understand the different perspectives on this.

My first question is for Mr. Bonnell.

You mentioned that, in your words, “No such historical policy commitment exists.” This isn't the root of the bigger issue I want to get at, but I do want to get some clarification around that, because my understanding—and perhaps you can correct me if I'm wrong—is that this has been referenced dozens of times, most recently in the 2021 management plan for the 2J3KL groundfish.

Can you clarify that comment for me, please?