Evidence of meeting #127 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vessels.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I'm not an accountant, but I'll be like an accountant right now with my next question.
What makes you think you can go from, you said, $60,000 per vessel down to $10,000? Where are the savings? How are we going to save $50,000 by having those ships taken to this new derelict vessel depot?
Executive Director, Coastal Restoration Society
I listed off some of the stuff at the beginning of my talk—
Liberal
Executive Director, Coastal Restoration Society
You save costs on training, insurance, accommodation, logistics, vessels, crew, equipment, waste transportation, heavy equipment, barge, staff and landfill fees, because part of the derelict vessel depot we're aiming to build will have that science and innovation to recycle things so that it's a circular economy. It's obviously going to be a—
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I don't want to cut you off—I'm sorry—but to go and get these vessels, for example, you will still need a barge and things like that. You'll probably still need some insurance on your business or whatever. Don't you think those costs are...? They're not fixed costs. A barge to go and get those vessels and then take them out of the water....
I just want to make sure I understand your business idea, if I can put it that way.
Executive Director, Coastal Restoration Society
Usually, the way we run projects is with clusters of boats, so we save on costs by going to get, say, 10 or 20 boats. The barge cost to pick up one boat is the same as it is to pick up 20 or 30.
A barge costs $350 an hour. You can use it for 10 hours a day and get it to a place in the depot—that's $3,500—rather than send an entire crew down, who will stay in a hotel, rent boats and get a barge to bring in an excavator to break it down. There are all of those different steps. The more remote you are when you have to do this, the more expensive it gets, so by having somewhere central, you can actually cut costs significantly.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you.
Ms. Lessard and Mr. Drolet, I want to make sure I understand. What exactly does your company do? Do you look after abandoned vessels, for example?
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
Our organization, Québec Subaquatique, is a non-profit organization made up of recreational divers. Our divers visit wrecks and abandoned vessels. As my colleague was saying, in Quebec, abandoned vessels are not a problem; there are very few of them. Abandoned vessels actually become tourist attractions for divers, who can explore them, observe biodiversity and practise certain techniques.
It's really the recreational and tourism aspect of scuba diving.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
We also have a few wrecks intended for scuba diving.
Let's consider a vessel that has been abandoned or has sunk. You've probably dived around some vessels that weren't sunk for the purpose of encouraging dive tourism.
Is there a difference between vessels that were sunk appropriately and those that were simply abandoned? For example, maybe the fuel tank wasn't emptied before the vessel sank.
Is marine biodiversity the same around such wrecks?
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
That's a great question.
We don't have data on that, but Mr. Drolet might be able to answer your question based on his extensive experience.
Diving Instructor, Québec Subaquatique
Wrecks definitely need to be cleaned up. Any fuel or cargo aboard a vessel could be detrimental to biodiversity. The difference is how quickly life will take hold on the wreck.
Let's consider a wreck of some kind—or any object, really. I'll give you an example: In the Saguenay fjord, a communications tower fell on a sandy bottom. There's hardly anything on the sandy bottom, but, when you look at the tower, it's hard to see the steel parts because there are things living on it. There are lots of living things, including anemones, crabs and squid.
As a recreational diver, I've never come across an accidental wreck or one that was only recently sunk.
In Ontario, near Brockville, Prescott or Kingston, there are wrecks that have been under water for over 100 years. The fuel at the time was coal, so there's a little more coal than diesel or fuel oil under water. These wrecks have been there for a long time, so life has returned.
One thing we know for sure is that the more fuel or pollution there is in the water, the longer it takes for life to take hold.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you.
Your time has run out, Mr. Cormier.
We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I'll let you finish your sentence, Ms. Lessard.
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
Actually, I just wanted to talk about the Artificial Reef Society of BC, which has large teams that specialize in using sunken wrecks to create artificial reefs. They also do a lot of studies on how long it takes for life to take hold on an artificial wreck. It takes about four years for enough biodiversity to return and attract divers. I think there are some interesting solutions for small vessels that can be implemented.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
That was kind of my question, actually.
Thank you for being with us. I'm so happy to hear people from Quebec talking about the St. Lawrence River and related topics.
My goodness, Mr. Chair, it's so nice.
I also want to make sure my colleagues understand that some wrecks have a recreational aspect. Certainly, some wrecks are detrimental to marine ecology and biological health, but there are some wrecks that can be used by diving enthusiasts for tourism purposes. My partner dives at Les Escoumins. I'm sure you've met.
I wanted to make that clear to my colleagues. You also mentioned that there's a team in British Columbia that does this kind of thing.
That said, there's one thing I'd like to know. Why must people sink vessels when there are so many at the bottom of the river that we'd like to remove? Would it be possible to develop an assessment protocol, perhaps even with the help of divers like you? Is there a way to assess whether a wreck on the bottom of the St. Lawrence is good or bad and to give that assessment to authorities who could take action or know what to do about it?
The Canadian Coast Guard folks told us they didn't know how to identify them or what to do. I think it might be a good idea to have better communication between your organizations. What do you think?
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
There are a lot of wrecks in the St. Lawrence River, but accessibility is the problem. The St. Lawrence is a hostile environment for divers, after all. There are currents, and the water is cold and deep. I think Mr. Drolet could tell you more about exploring these wrecks from a technical perspective.
Bloc
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
Yes, it's an extreme sport because the river is deep. For example, the Empress of Ireland is about 110 feet down. Very few divers can access it. Cold, deep water and other factors can make it tricky to survey abandoned vessels that could be wrecks.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
They can be surveyed only if they're at the right depth.
Executive Director, Québec Subaquatique
That would be very interesting. If you want us to do a study on that, I'm sure I can find a lot of divers who would be very happy to go out and look for ships. Mr. Drolet would be the first to get involved.
Diving Instructor, Québec Subaquatique
I would definitely be the first because I love scuba diving. In fact, divers are all explorers in a way. Obviously, the wreck of the Empress of Ireland is a wonderful treasure for Quebec, and for the entire world. The fact that it sank was a terrible disaster. However, the boat is well preserved and has a historical component, which is really interesting.
In the case of a wreck that is set up though, there might be more to explore, such as the resumption of marine life. Of course, I love history and I love diving, but biodiversity is important. The Escoumins de Québec Subaquatique dive base is located in Parks Canada's Saguenay-St. Lawrence Marine Park. There is a beautiful beach site that could be used to set up a wreck and support marine life.
As we know, the river temperature is rising and it's more difficult. There is less marine life.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
How do wrecks promote biodiversity? Do they provide a biodiverse environment?
Diving Instructor, Québec Subaquatique
A wreck becomes an artificial reef. It's a protective environment for small organisms. The small ones, when there are a lot of them, attract the medium-sized ones, and then gradually it becomes a complex ecosystem.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
It protects them from predators, too.