Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We heard you say earlier that the legislative process was long and arduous and that, in the absence of a federal act dealing specifically with aquaculture, the committee could discuss incorporating an aquaculture component into the Fisheries Act as part of its current study. The act could include sections you feel are important.

You mentioned five priorities. Could they be part of our study and be incorporated into the Fisheries Act?

[Tim Kennedy]

Yes, very much; these five recommendations are very specific to the Fisheries Act. Some small changes or recommendations around the inclusion of aquaculture in the Fisheries Act would be an important way to point to the future importance of the sector. We're very supportive of small, specific changes that could really help the sector.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

This year in Quebec there was a precipitous drop in salmon stocks. Salmon spawning has declined significantly. Right now, people in my area are almost in a panic.

Can aquaculture have a scientific component that could be used to restore the wild species, or do you just focus on fish farming?

[Tim Kennedy]

That's a great question. We have a number of projects across the country. The aquaculture companies, which really are the leading experts on the survival, breeding and propagation of salmon, have very successful projects. In the Bay of Fundy, for instance, Cooke Aquaculture, one of our large producers, is very active with Parks Canada in recovery efforts for salmon in that area. It's the most successful project around the re-establishment of salmon in Canada.

There is a lot more we could be doing to work with the conservation community. Unfortunately, to date, there has been a lot of polarization. Efforts to bring us all together are very, very important. I think we can do a lot more.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It could be an advantage for the perception of aquaculture.

Thank you.

[Tim Kennedy]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Collins for six minutes or less, please.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

First, I'll go to Mr. Kennedy.

I think we may have a different position on open-net farms. B.C. is the last place on the west coast of North America that has open-net Atlantic salmon farms. There have been dozens of studies showing the harms to wild Pacific salmon. A majority of British Columbians and over 120 first nations across B.C. support a transition away from open net-pen salmon farms.

However, I think we probably can agree that, in any transition, workers need to be supported, and there needs to be a comprehensive transition plan, a jobs plan. The government recently tabled the draft transition plan for moving away from open-net fish aquaculture in B.C. The draft plan was released seven weeks after their self-imposed deadline, and there was hardly any clear information on what the plan would actually look like.

Can you talk a little bit about what that actually means? What are the impacts of the lack of certainty on your transition planning? What are the impacts on communities? What happens when this uncertainty persists?

[Tim Kennedy]

You're right. We certainly disagree on a number of the foundational issues that you raised.

I think one thing that we can agree on is that we actually do embrace transition. We recognize that there are a lot of very deep public perceptions about the sector and that change needs to happen.

I will say that change has happened. Occasionally, we will be struck by how a lot of the criticism that we hear is actually criticism of a salmon-farming industry that no longer exists. It's criticism from the early 2000s about operations and activities that actually have been curtailed or changed over many years.

With respect, Ms. Collins, the other thing I do want to ask is about what jobs you are talking about. You've lived in Port Hardy. These are areas that have almost no other job opportunities in them. We're talking about very good, well-paid, middle-class jobs in British Columbia, in small communities, in first nations communities all across Vancouver Island.

When the NDP, for instance, talks about job transition, what is it to? There are very few other jobs. Are you talking about call centres? We're talking about biologists, scientists and engineers who are highly trained. We have the youngest agri-food workforce in Canada. Two-thirds of the workforce in British Columbia in our salmon-farming sector is under the age of 35. These are extremely well-trained people.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I have limited time, and we're about halfway through—

[Tim Kennedy]

I just want to say that, really, this is a real problem.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'll just circle back to what the question was. This transition is happening. The government has released a draft plan. I think we probably agree that this has been inadequate to support communities and that, right now, people are looking out and not feeling a lot of hope.

I'm curious. When we talk about transitioning people—and you said yourself that you're on board for a transition—what does that look like to you? What can you see that the government could be doing better to support these workers in that transition? There are opportunities in clean energy, in marine conservation, and in many, many sectors that we could be supporting people to transition into. However, so far, what we've seen from this government is top-down decision-making without a lot of real support for the people on the ground.

[Tim Kennedy]

Yes, I think you're right about the lack of hope. There's actually a fair bit of despair that's been created by this approach and this decision.

To be clear, transition is one thing, and there was an original commitment to transition away from ocean net-pens. That's something that we can actually embrace. What we can't embrace is an outright ban on ocean pens, because that's just not happening. It's not possible. People will lose their jobs. We have 5,000 people still employed directly and indirectly by the sector. They don't have anywhere to go right now.

To answer your question, there have been no approaches around other job training. There is a process going on at the moment to discuss some of these things, but it's totally inadequate, and it's very rushed. People are in a really difficult position.

Again, Ms. Collins, I'll just say that the NDP has been a real driver of this extreme decision, so I think a lot of that lack of hope and a lot of that despair needs to fall with you and your party.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I am really proud of the work that my colleagues have done in trying to protect wild salmon. As I mentioned, over 120 first nations communities across British Columbia and the majority of British Columbians want to see a transition away from open-net salmon farming, Atlantic salmon farming. It is having a devastating impact on our Pacific wild salmon stock, which has cultural significance to first nations communities. Seeing the decimation of that species is really concerning to most British Columbians.

I have more questions for Mr. Bradley, but I'll follow up in the next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Collins. Your time is up.

We go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses here today.

I want to start off with Mr. Bradley, if I could.

On December 7, 2016, Dr. David Schindler appeared before this committee—some of us were here at that time, and I was one of them—for a study of the 2012 changes to the Fisheries Act. Dr. Schindler told the committee at the time that the Trudeau government-proposed climate change action plan for reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 contained four scenarios, three of which proposed replacing fossil fuel power with so much hydroelectric power that we'd need 100 facilities the size of Muskrat Falls in Labrador or Site C in B.C. We'd have to build that many more between 2016 and 2050.

Can you tell me how much new hydroelectric power generation has been created since that statement in 2016, eight years ago?

[Francis Bradley]

Since 2016, we've had an addition of about 3,500 megawatts onto the system, but recognize that these are very long-term assets, and so decisions to bring those 3,500 megawatts online were made decades ago.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

What percentage of the total production is that increase, roughly?

[Francis Bradley]

Off the top of my head, it's in the single digits.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's a single-digit percentage increase in eight years, one-quarter of the time that we have to reach 2050. It doesn't sound like this government's targets for new hydro power are progressing in time for 2050, even though the climate action plan is based on significant expansion of hydroelectric generation.

Have the 2019 changes to the Fisheries Act facilitated or slowed development of new hydroelectric projects?

[Francis Bradley]

Well, it gives me no pleasure to come back to this committee six years later to say, “I told you so”, but six years ago we expressed concern, based on how the legislation was drafted, that this would prove to be an impediment. It is proving to be an impediment, I would say, in terms of both the challenge of existing facilities and the ability to build new facilities. It's impacting both sides of that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Can you tell the committee how long it would take for a single project, like Muskrat Falls or Site C, to be completed if it was initiated today?

[Francis Bradley]

If a project was initiated today, we don't know how much time it would take to be built. The most recent experiences of our projects were prior to a number of changes—some of them to this act, but also changes to the Impact Assessment Act and other pieces of legislation. When you begin putting all of those together, it would be, frankly, at this stage almost impossible to predict how long it would take to get a project through the current processes, which are more complex than they were previously.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Are there any significant hydroelectric projects even being considered?

[Francis Bradley]

Yes, but they're certainly a little further down the track at this stage. In terms of how long it takes a project from start to finish, one of the more recent examples of this would be the Romaine project in Quebec, which was initiated in 2009 and completed in 2023. That was 14 years from beginning to end, on a 1,500-megawatt project based upon the previous regimes that we had with respect to the Fisheries Act, the Species at Risk Act and the Impact Assessment Act. It would be significantly more under the current regimes.