Fisheries Committee on March 29th, 2022

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. McKay.

From what I understand, there could be much more punitive or restrictive legislation depending on the dangerousness of the goods that ships transport. That is a major element.

We cannot judge the actions of the master. In fact, if there is a law, a ship's master would have to comply with it and couldn't rely on financial considerations to justify decisions. We can understand the economic aspect of this situation, but the ecological aspect should be given priority from the outset in 2022.

Do you agree with me?

[Martin McKay]

With respect to all of our regulations, we put the safety of both the navigational safety system and the environment front and foremost and make those two aspects key priorities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Henderson, can you clarify what would be defined as a cleaned shoreline? I'm hearing from those on the ground that they're continuing to see debris washing up onto shores that have been identified as cleaned. Can you expand on that?

[Chris Henderson]

I think it's fair to say that with the situation with the Zim Kingston and the fact that there are 105 sea containers that are unaccounted for, debris will surface and wash up. The Coast Guard will continue to work with the shipowner to attend those beaches where there are reports from the public or from first nations. We've also received reports from Parks Canada about debris.

We have our own helicopters. We have the airplanes from the national aeronautical surveillance program that will go to take a look. We'll work with the shipowner to continue to clean the beaches as debris comes up.

It's also the case that it will become increasingly difficult to attribute the garbage—and unfortunately, sadly, there's a lot of garbage on the beaches—to the Zim Kingston, but we'll continue to do what we can.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Henderson.

Unfortunately, we know we're going to see increased spills in our waters if we keep going in the direction we are going and using the processes we have in place. With climate change, we're going to keep seeing extreme weather events. If we keep trying to ship the number of containers we are shipping, at the heights they're at, they're inevitably going to fall over.

I'm hoping that as we study this we'll be able to take this information to not only understand the environmental impacts on our marine environment but also to prevent these spills from occurring moving forward.

I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit around this. What I'm hearing from those on the ground is that the onus of responsibility on shippers to clean up these container spills is not working. Instead, we need to look at having a tactical task force to ensure that local communities, first nations and local experts are all able to begin the cleanup immediately.

What is stopping us from developing a plan to utilize local knowledge and to clean up effectively and efficiently when container spills occur?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Henderson, if you're going to answer that question, I'd ask you to submit it in writing. The time allotted for Ms. Barron has gone way over. If you could provide that to the committee, it would be appreciated.

[Chris Henderson]

Certainly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Now we have a decision to make as a committee. I'm not going to make it up front.

We've used almost a full hour. To go any further, we have to go 10 minutes to clew up. If we go any further than this, the last panel is going to have a very limited amount of time because of the fact that we have drafting instructions at least 15 minutes before we clew up. I'll leave that to the committee to give me some direction.

Mr. Perkins, you're up next.

I'll ask you to tell me if you want us to go for 10 minutes or if you want to lose it on the other end.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I personally would like to go a little more on this with the officials, if I could, but I'm in the committee's hands.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, you have your five minutes, and then we'll go to the Liberal side for their five minutes to clew it up. The next panel will be very short.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witnesses, thank you for coming.

The incident command post and the unified command post was apparently stood down on November 25, 2021, on this incident. Could you tell me who's coordinating the cleanup right now?

[Jonathan Brickett]

Whether a command post is still going or not doesn't extinguish the Coast Guard's mandate. The folks who were in the command post have program responsibilities. That just transitioned from what we had as a very formal, separate structure to look after those decisions and then moved into the program. The same folks from the province, the nations, Environment Canada, DFO, and working with the shipowner, carry on with that spill. It's just not done with an incident commander.

We have legal authorities under WAHVA, and we continue on to date with that.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

I think the witnesses mentioned earlier that they're coordinating and that there are outside resources being used to help in the cleanup. Could you tell us who they are and how much they're being paid, please?

[Chris Henderson]

The audio cut out a little bit at the beginning of that question. I'm not sure that it's necessary to go back.

As Mr. Brickett has said, the Coast Guard continues to work closely with the shipowner, and the shipowner is the organization that is contracting—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay. That's great. Then how much is the shipowner being paid by the federal government to clean up their own mess?

[Chris Henderson]

The shipowner is not being paid anything by the federal government to clean up.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Are you allotting additional funds to help in the cleanup, not only from the ship, but also the coastal cleanup?

[Chris Henderson]

To date, we have expended about $80,000 on personnel and helicopter flights. As we progress, we'll take a look at submitting a claim to the shipowner, which we will do. It's certainly our practice to tabulate our costs and seek to recover them, and we are not paying any money to the shipowner to do their work.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The only other outside resource you're coordinating in the cleanup is the shipowners. Are there no other outside resources?

[Chris Henderson]

Well, the shipowner is contracting other resources. We're working with the shipowner to make sure their response is adequate and appropriate. We feel, collectively, that we are working with a very responsible and responsive shipowner. Up until this point we've had no reason to invoke the authorities we have under the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, and they continue to be very responsive and responsible.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, the witnesses mentioned earlier in the testimony that they were delayed in their decision-making or made some decisions not to proceed when they had the opportunity to do so. Was that because there was a backup at the port of ships or was it for some other reason?

[Chris Henderson]

Mr. Chair, perhaps I could ask for clarification on who did not proceed.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Was the ship delayed in getting to the port because there was a backup of container vessels at the port?

[Chris Henderson]

I'm sorry, sir, but I am not able to answer that question. I don't know.