Evidence of meeting #131 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was first.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I was struck by what I believe Ms. Patterson said about the lack of clarity from the regulator, the department, when it comes to permits. It almost feels like there are two different issues. One is the structure of the legislation and the statute, and the other is the way the department interprets and implements them on the ground when working with applicants and different industries.
I can see why that would be very frustrating if you're an operator and you just want them to tell you exactly what to do within a relatively reasonable timeline so you can get on with the work to their specifications. I've heard this in other contexts as well.
I'm wondering if the issue is a lack of resources being applied. The mining industry often has complaints about the length of the permitting process, and that goes back to the resources being invested in reviewing permit applications. If more resources were invested in doing that work, would you get a more timely outcome? I don't know if that necessarily deals with the issue of clarity, and that's the other part of the question. How do you get to the point where the department or the regulator is able to give you a really clear direction on what you need to do to meet the requirements of the legislation?
President and Chief Executive Officer, WaterPower Canada
As I think Peter referred to previously, before 2019 a lot of the work could be done through an agreement. There was an understanding or an operating practice that was accepted in the industry for the facilities that were already in operation. Now facilities that are in operation also need an FAA. That's a much more lengthy process, and it requires all of these studies.
You'll always have a resource issue on the side of the regulator if you're adding more and more things for them to do. It would be good to look at a way to ensure they don't need to do that much work but you're still reaching the objective of making sure that fish populations are being looked after.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Can I ask one more little question, Mr. Chair, given that we're right at time?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You can if you can get it done in 10 seconds and get an answer in 10 seconds.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
At the end of the process, they eventually do get back to you. You eventually get the permits, because the plants are still operating and you're getting the work done. It's just—
President and Chief Executive Officer, WaterPower Canada
No, they're not getting the permits. They're operating without permits in many cases, and it creates a huge risk for them.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In the cases where you are getting permits.... Obviously there are some cases where you've gotten permits, or have you never—
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That's fair enough. I'll take the cue from my colleague.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: In the cases where you have gotten permits, although maybe there are only a few, has the department told you to essentially do what you would have done anyway, or are there extraordinary things they're asking you to do?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Nova Scotia Power Inc.
If I have time, there is a specific example for exactly what you're asking. For what we would have previously done under a code of practice or a best practice in the pre-2019 legislation, this time we had to do an FAA for it. We did get approval for the FAA, but it took a lot longer. I think it took two years. It added $300,000 in cost. The way we went about it was the exact same way we would have done it pre-2019. That's the example.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your forbearance.
I know my colleagues want to go home, but that was a good answer.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thanks, Mr. Bachrach.
I'm going to say something now that's not an insult. There must be something in the water the New Democrats are drinking. They always go over time. Ms. Barron is famous for it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Yes, but how do you cut someone off in the middle of a question or in the middle of an answer?
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I want to say a huge thank you to Mr. Gregg, Ms. Patterson and of course Gilbert Bennett, who I know has been very dedicated to this particular industry over many years. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the committee today as we try to do our study and get some really good recommendations made for both your industry and the fishing industry.
Thank you, everyone. On Monday we will resume our study of the Fisheries Act.
The meeting is adjourned.
