Fisheries Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway. Your time is up.

That concludes our first hour of questions for the minister.

I understand that the minister is only here for an hour, and the officials are staying for an hour to answer questions on the estimates.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing again today. It's always a pleasure.

We'll suspend for a moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We will now resume the questioning of the officials.

Joining us on the panel we have, from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, Richard Goodyear, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer. Also, of course, we have Mario Pelletier and Ms. Gibbons, who have both stayed. Mr. Burns is back again, and Niall O'Dea is here as well.

Welcome.

I'm sure you're used to this by now. You'll have an opening statement.

[A voice]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. We're just going right into questioning. That's perfect.

Mr. Small, you have six minutes or less.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You're more than welcome, buddy.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Yes, and our witnesses are more than welcome. It's wonderful to be here.

Ms. Gibbons, the minister just mentioned that around $113 million of her ask is to go to the small craft harbours program, and she said it was a top priority. She mentioned that Miramichi—Grand Lake was going to receive $1.6 million in funding. She didn't mention the riding of my colleague Mr. Perkins, South Shore—St. Margarets.

How was that funding disbursed? What were the criteria for harbours to receive funding this past year?

[Annette Gibbons]

As to the process, the department keeps a running list of the state of the different harbours, and then we look at a variety of factors. Certainly, safety is top of mind.

We have lots of different harbours across the country, and we look at harbours that are important for commercial fisheries, the number of users at a harbour, the importance of the fisheries in those communities—all of those things.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Of the $113 million that the minister is asking for right now for small craft harbours, how much is going to her own riding? Am I close to being accurate with the calculation that $45 million of the $113 million is going to her own riding? Is that right?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can't answer that question. We don't track that by riding in the department.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Would you be able to provide that in writing to the committee?

[Annette Gibbons]

We don't do that analysis by riding. That's not something we do.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay. Well, it's been identified that the South Shore—St. Margarets riding alone needs $600 million to make it safe, and those are DFO's own numbers. That riding received no money last year for its harbours and none this year.

Was there an order that came out of your department to not fund small craft harbours in that part of Nova Scotia?

Maybe that's for Mr. Goodyear. You're the money man.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Annette Gibbons]

At the end of the day, it's a complex weighing of different things. Sometimes a harbour is functional but needs a complete overhaul, to be completely rebuilt. For something that's $600 million, it sounds like it's in that category.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

It's very odd to me, though, Ms. Gibbons, that the $2-billion lobster industry operating out of West Nova and South Shore—St. Margarets gets one project. Close to 20% of our nation's GDP is from the fishing industry, and they get one project.

Can you tie that knot together for me?

[Annette Gibbons]

There are lots of different harbours and there are lots of different needs, and we really—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Wouldn't you say that's awfully peculiar?

[Annette Gibbons]

We do different things in different places depending on what the needs are. In some cases, we focus on keeping things functional if it's a really expensive project to do and there isn't enough funding to do it. There are lots of different factors going into the decision-making process.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I'll turn my time over to Mr. Perkins.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 45 seconds.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Your own department estimates that West Nova needs $600 million. It's the richest fishery in the country. It accounts for most of the value of our fishery. The value of the fishery isn't there, because no money is going into my riding, and there's only one project in West Nova, the most dangerous fishery in the world since it's the winter, yet Liberal ridings get it. The minister announced about $45 million for her own riding this past summer and not a nickel went to the most important community in the fishery, with 7,000 commercial fishermen. It sure looks to me like somebody has made an effort to keep that most important Conservative riding out of the picture, mainly because the minister doesn't like the way I question minister number six.

Is she giving an order to keep the money out?

[Annette Gibbons]

The decisions on the final projects are something I can't speak to in detail.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Does the minister approve the final projects?

[Annette Gibbons]

The minister approved the projects.