Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Satinder Singh]

Yes, I do.

I will add that we have had power outages, and yes, we have worked with MCTS to provide that redundancy as well here at the Nanaimo Port Authority, as we have the marine domain awareness system that was leveraged during that time.

I think it's a partnership, if you may, that really works well in the western region of Canada. Everybody works together well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Madam Gaudreau for six minutes or less, please.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank everyone for joining us.

First, Mr. Singh, I wish you a speedy recovery.

I took note of all the details that you shared with us. In your opinion, the collaboration, follow‑up, protocols, receipt of notices, and so on, were carried out.

Mr. Madiwal, I want you to explain what you meant by the statement that, during an incident, there's some type of emergency collaboration.

[Shri Madiwal]

In terms of collaboration, the lead agency in such a marine casualty is assigned to the Canadian Coast Guard. The Canadian Coast Guard manages the incident command system and also includes all of the other relevant agencies responsible to support the incident command within the incident command post. That's what collaboration means.

For example, if there were an incident in the port of Vancouver jurisdiction, we'd be part of the response team. We'd also be part of the incident command, working with the federal, provincial, local and municipal response agencies, and also with Transport Canada and other federal agencies. We do collaborate on those issues.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is about the investigation process. It's for Mr. Singh and Mr. Madiwal.

I would like you to share your expertise in this area. A spill can have an environmental impact. My main focus is obviously to find solutions so that this type of situation doesn't happen again. I'm thinking of future generations. That's exactly what I said this week.

Is there an investigation mechanism for establishing guilt or assigning blame?

Do you know of any fines or penalties large enough to ensure that a more proactive approach is taken?

[Satinder Singh]

I can go first.

The Transportation Safety Board investigates all incidents and provides factual information in terms of how those incidents could be mitigated with best practices in the future. It is an independent agency that provides that information, which could be leveraged for the benefit of the committee as well when it is exploring options.

In terms of blame, I personally don't think that finding blame or placing blame allows for a way to improve things. I find that working together collaboratively and including everybody from the outset, bringing people who have expertise and are subject matter experts to the table, can expedite and mitigate risks for the marine industry in the future.

In the case of the Zim Kingston, the Nanaimo Port Authority got engaged later, after discussions were already in place with other entities. I believe that if the Nanaimo Port Authority were included from the outset, when the incident occurred and when discussions were starting to happen, there would have been a shorter timeline to manage the salvage operation and also come up with a plan in terms of mitigating the risks in the future.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Madiwal, do you also believe that the port authority should have been—

[Shri Madiwal]

I have a little different view to answer your question....

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I wanted to know whether you agreed with Mr. Singh's comments.

[Shri Madiwal]

I wouldn't fully agree. I have a little different opinion on that.

In terms of the oil spill prevention and preparedness, I think we have done a lot in the country. In Canada there are strict regulations under the Canada Shipping Act on the vessels and also in terms of the preparedness with respect to early detection and response. We have a world-class oil spill response facility on the west coast of B.C.

In terms of liability for oil spill response, we have the oil spill liability convention and the ship-source oil pollution fund, to which everyone contributes. In case the liability exceeds the shipowner's insurance, that fund kicks in. Similar to that, in the context of the Zim Kingston, where you have packaged goods and not an oil spill, those things are also covered under the hazardous and noxious substances convention, which Canada was early in adopting and ratifying, and the IMO conventions.

The short answer is that the shipowner is still liable first for addressing all of the environment issues, recovery and repair. When the shipowner's liability is exceeded, then the fund kicks in and provides some additional benefits to the local communities so there is no damage to the environment as a cost, and that is available to everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses who are here today.

It's so nice to see you, Captain Singh. I want to just acknowledge my appreciation for your taking me on a great tour of the work that you were doing in the port of Nanaimo related to the Zim Kingston. It's nice to have you here.

Captain Madiwal, I hope we have a chance to meet in person soon.

I want to expand a little bit, Captain Singh, on something you touched on related to the timeliness of communications with the port of Nanaimo and being able to respond to the Zim Kingston. We know that the Zim Kingston was anchored along the coast for about a month before it reached the port of Nanaimo. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about why that was the case. Do you think having the Zim Kingston anchored for about a month posed any additional risk?

[Satinder Singh]

There was a delay in managing the Zim Kingston incident. I do believe that the Nanaimo Port Authority was included after all other options were exhausted. If the Nanaimo Port Authority had been included from the outset at the table to discuss options for the Zim Kingston, perhaps the vessel would have been in Nanaimo sooner. I do not actually know if that would have been the case, but I suspect it would have been, considering we were looking for a solution to help the Zim Kingston.

Constance Bank was not the best location for the vessel to remain in. That is why the agent, when they reached out to the Nanaimo Port Authority, was very anxious to move very quickly.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Captain Singh.

I saw first-hand the number of people involved and the process of sorting debris. It's quite the process, requiring a lot of people on the ground and leadership to make sure that all of the pieces were being taken care of.

I'm wondering if you can speak a little more, specifically around the port's process for disposal of debris from the ship and how you ensure that it's managed safely for people and the environment.

[Satinder Singh]

Yes. Zim Kingston provided Nanaimo Port Authority with a waste management plan. In collaboration with the terminal, Nanaimo Port Authority was assured that the disposal would take place as per their register in terms of what type of waste would be disposed of and how, who would be the operator, and which recognized facility would be receiving that waste. Once that was established, everybody worked great, as you saw first-hand, Lisa Marie. It was a really good experience, just to see how people could really come together and do a great job to facilitate a solution. That speaks to humanity as a whole.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Captain Madiwal, one ongoing concern that we're hearing about is the increased amount of cargo containers being shipped in our waters and the increased height. We're seeing that the shipments are getting larger and higher. There are all of these other pieces, of course, around the extreme weather patterns we're seeing.

I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit about how ports are keeping up with this demand. With all of the complexity of the shipping, that seems to be happening more and more.

[Shri Madiwal]

Thank you, Lisa, for that question. I'll answer it in two parts.

First, about the safety, container vessel sizes generally in the last decade or so have grown considerably. As you know, the container is supposed to be one of the best inventions of this decade. So many items have been shipped through containers. Though the largest container ship is about 24,000 TEUs—a TEU is a 20-foot equivalent unit—on the west coast of North America, we don't see large vessels that have been deployed in this trans-Pacific run.

For example, the largest vessel that would call at the port of Vancouver would be around 13,000 TEUs to 14,000 TEUs. Compared with what the world deals with and manages in terms of large vessels, I would say that fairly medium-sized vessels call at the port of Vancouver. Overall, in terms of safety reasons, I don't think we have a challenge around that. We still have a lot of facilities that can accommodate much larger vessels safely. It's entirely up to supply and demand and the carriers that deploy those vessels in the zone.

The second thing is around the demand and the global supply chain challenges. The pandemic has definitely changed the spending habits of Canadians, just as it has everywhere else in the world. That has definitely spiked the demand. Just last year our container volumes grew by 6% annually, which was a big increase. We handle about 3.7 million containers in the port of Vancouver. The demand continues to grow. We think we will soon run out of capacity in the very short term on the west coast of B.C.

That's a big challenge for not only B.C., but also Canada. That's where we're working with all the partners to see what infrastructure we'd like in order to support the growing needs of the port, but also Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron. You went a little bit over, so we'll end it there.

We'll go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Singh and Mr. Madiwal.

I'll start off with you, Mr. Singh, and hopefully you can answer the question.

Who is responsible for determining and confirming the security of cargo on board a vessel as it comes into or exits Canadian waters?

[Satinder Singh]

That is CBSA.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

CBSA is responsible for that?

[Satinder Singh]

Yes, it is.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Does the ship's captain or shipmaster have to pass on that certification information?

[Satinder Singh]

Yes. The shipmaster will provide all documentation that CBSA requires to administer their regulations accordingly.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Does that include the securing of containers on board the vessel and the ship's stability assessment?