It's a good question. I think it kind of relates to Mike Staley's points around co-governance and co-management, and also the points that the other panellists have made around the necessary separation between management and science.
Currently without that separation it's really hard to take a two-eyed seeing approach in science and then have that come up against the hard wall of management.
Until we create science advice independent from a management decision and specifically ministerial discretion, it's going to be extremely hard. We struggle with the same thing as Mike Staley spoke to in the Fraser with our collaborative governance and co-management processes in my region.