Fisheries Committee on June 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 27 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 1, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of science at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, of course, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

As per the directive of the Board of Internal Economy, wear a mask.... Okay, everybody knows that.

For those participating by video conference, when you are ready to speak, click on the icon to activate your mike, and please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. For interpretation, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. I'll remind everyone that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses for today. We have with us Eda Roussel, fisheries adviser with the Association des crevettiers acadiens du Golfe. From the Canadian Sportfishing Industry Association, we have Mr. Phil Morlock, director, government affairs. From the Maritime Fishermen's Union, we have Martin Mallet, executive director. From the Public Fishery Alliance, we have Dave Brown. From the South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition, we have Christopher Bos, president. From the Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia, we have Owen Bird, executive director, and Martin Paish, director, business development. Finally, from the Fédération régionale acadienne des pêcheurs professionnels, we have Jean Lanteigne, director general.

We'll start off with our witnesses for five minutes or less.

We'll go to Mr. Morlock first.

[Phil Morlock, Director, Government Affairs, Canadian Sportfishing Industry Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee in your review of this important topic. Hopefully, my 35 years of first-hand professional experience, with the evolution of DFO senior staff influence, changes to policy and dealing with multiple ministers from both sides of the aisle, will be of benefit to your process.

Fish and wildlife management is a scientific discipline with accepted professional standards, much like medicine, engineering or physics. One hundred and twenty-five years of leadership by people who fish and hunt in developing and funding successful science-based fish and wildlife conservation efforts proves the enormous value of the North American model of conservation. The model is comprised of seven basic components, and Canada has played an essential role in its creation.

The wealth of healthy and abundant fish and wildlife populations, habitat, parks and protected areas that we take for granted in Canada and the U.S. did not occur by accident. They exist today as a direct result of the successful application of the components of this model. No other continent in the world can claim anything close to this level of diversity of species or quality of habitat. Commonly shared coastal and inland waters and migration routes are but a few examples of why successful environmentally sustainable resource use management is common doctrine to both the United States and Canada. While some problems and challenges remain, the solutions are proven to be found within the applied principles of the North American model of conservation.

Although Canadian provincial and U.S. state and federal natural resource agencies continue to apply the components of this model in policy development and application, DFO no longer does. There was a time, in my experience, when DFO was a leader in fishery management in the world. Outstanding professionals like Tom Bird, Dr. Terry Grnes and Bill Otway brought a common-sense approach to collaborating with stakeholders and upholding all the tenets of the North American model.

Sadly, with Tom Bird’s retirement, the DFO approach with policy and stakeholders changed for the worse. In fact, in my experience, the genesis of this erosion of credible science at DFO began with an end run on scientific peer review at the Canadian Wildlife Service 20 years ago. Prior to releasing any published official documents, the CWS policy was to conduct an editorial peer review by an independent group of nine well-respected academic and government science professionals. This prevented mistakes and maintained a high standard of scientific credibility at the agency and with the public, but in 2003, without going through the independent science peer review process, CWS released to the public a 40-page document claiming to be a science-based review of the toxic impacts of lead sinkers and jigs on wildlife in Canada. This followed years of lobbying by the World Wildlife Fund to ban lead content fishing tackle in Canada.

Dr. Dave Ankney of the University of Western Ontario, a member of the CWS editorial board, along with other experts, openly challenged this unprecedented compromise of scientific standard at a federal agency. Dr. Ankney said:

In my 30 years as a wildlife scientist, I've seen bad science and I've seen abuse of science, but never have I seen so much bad science and abuse of science in one document.... Those responsible for this disingenuous attempt to mislead Canadians should be fired either for their scientific incompetence or for their chicanery, or both.

Dr. Ankney reported that he asked the CWS director general to take action to correct this serious threat to agency credibility and professional standards. Dr. Ankney said his request was ignored, and subsequently the CWS director general had him removed from the editorial peer review panel.

Many of the conclusions and falsehoods in the document were widely challenged and discredited by other scientists, resource professionals and the fishing industry. It drew even more attention when the National Post featured the CWS publication in an article titled “Sinking science” during its “Junk Science Week” in 2005.

Subsequently, CWS senior bureaucrats moved into a series of senior positions at Fisheries and Oceans where, coincidentally, the trend to replace credible science with alternate agendas from foreign environmental groups and their wealthy benefactors continue to present day, at both agencies.

When DFO and Environment Canada moved away from applying the proven success of the North American model, the negative impacts on key sport and commercial fish populations increased exponentially on both coasts. No substantive solutions or positive results have occurred to reverse this trend. The damage to related regional and national economies has been ignored.

The collaboration, integrity and mutual respect that once defined the relationship with the recreational fishing community has been undermined by DFO collusion with foreign entities bent on ending recreational fishing from coast to coast to coast. Arbitrary public access closures by percentage targets with no basis in science or evidence of benefit have become official DFO policy.

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that. That was almost right on your five-minute mark.

We'll now go to Ms. Roussel, for five minutes or less, please.

[Eda Roussel, Fisheries Advisor, Association des crevettiers acadiens du Golfe]

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss science at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans as it pertains to shrimp fishing in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence.

My name is Eda Roussel. I am a fisheries advisor at the Fédération régionale acadienne des pêcheurs professionnels, FRAPP, and responsible for the shrimp file. I have been with the FRAPP for over 30 years. As a representative of Acadian shrimpers, I attend various peer assessments, as well as the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and estuary shrimp advisory committee.

Before I tackle the main issues related to your invitation, I think it is important to tell you who we are.

The Association des crevettiers acadiens du golfe is an association of mid-shore Acadian captain-owner shrimpers based on the Acadian Peninsula, hence its name. The ACAG is a member of the FRAPP.

Our shrimpers are mid-shore groundfish fishers who decided to diversify by specializing in shrimp fishing. Ships are 65 feet long and over and travel long distances to get to the fishing grounds. The fishers hold individual transferable quotas and are regulated by a number of management measures. The fishing season begins on April 1 and ends on December 31.

A research survey has been conducted since 1990 in the estuary and in the northern Gulf of St. Lawrence in August using a Department of Fisheries and Oceans vessel. That ecosystem survey aims to describe the biodiversity of the species in the gulf, as well as the physical and biological oceanographic conditions. What is important to note is that this research survey is a multi-species survey—in other words, it is not focused solely on shrimp. The survey is also mostly carried out randomly, with stations selected at random, and sometimes shrimp fishing grounds are not covered. Biomass indices are calculated using a geostatistical method. This survey helps describe shrimp distribution, estimated abundance—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Ms. Roussel, the clerk has her hand up.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Tina Miller]

Mrs. Roussel, the interpreters are asking you to slow down a bit.

Thank you.

[Eda Roussel]

Okay.

The survey helps describe shrimp distribution, estimate stock abundance and understand the dynamics of the shrimp population.

In recent years, there has been a discrepancy between fishery indices and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans survey data.

In 2012, the Fisheries and Oceans Canada management, the science branch of the department and the shrimp fishing industry worked together to implement a precautionary approach. During the peer review for this year, the science branch determined that the precautionary approach did not take into account the current environmental conditions and that this risk must be integrated into the precautionary approach right now. We, industry people, read the science branch's document during that peer review, and we were already being asked to integrate it into the precautionary approach without having an opportunity to analyze it and present it to our members.

At a meeting of the shrimp advisory committee, the shrimp industry recommended to follow the current precautionary approach, except for the Sept‑Îles area. According to the current approach, the total allowable catch in that area should be increased by 22.5%, but industry decided that the increase should be only 15% and supported the idea of reviewing the precautionary approach over the course of this year. However, the minister did not follow that industry recommendation and reduced the total allowable catch based on scenarios proposed by the science branch, after the branch presented its document during the peer review. That makes us wonder why a precautionary approach is being implemented when it is being dismissed out of hand.

The peer review process is one thing, but fishers' expertise and data are another. We think that fishers' data deserve to be taken into account as much as scientific data. Fishers are the eyes on the water. They are on the water from April 1, sometimes until November, and even December, while Department of Fisheries and Oceans surveys are carried out only over a 20‑day period in August.

The trust among fishers, the science branch and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is clearly not the best right now. Fishers feel that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans management does not have enough trust in their data and their expertise. However, their goal is not to destroy the species, but to earn a living year after year. They know that resource must be protected for the sustainability of fishing. For the fisher, any decisions made by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on fisheries can impact their fishing business.

The Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat document says that technological developments in the fishing industry—including the use of seabed mapping, echo sounders and new trawls—enable fishers to be more productive than in the past. Our fishers say that this is false, as they have had the same trawls for more than 10 years and have been using sounders for nearly 30 years. So those technologies are not new for fishers.

Predation by redfish also has a significant impact on shrimp. Scientists from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are telling us that redfish eat over 200,000 tonnes of shrimp, while they quantify shrimp biomass at 52,000 tonnes. Those data do not add up. How can redfish eat 200,000 tonnes of shrimp when shrimp biomass is only 52,000 tonnes? We think serious consultations must be held on the impact of predation by redfish on shrimp populations, as well as on the future and the importance of that fishery.

Given the difficult situation that fleet is currently experiencing, it may be timely for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to contribute financially and enable shrimpers to carry out, in collaboration with the science branch, more in-depth research on shrimp and the impact of predation by redfish on shrimp. Research surveys specifically on shrimp could be carried out at a time other than August, in various fishing areas. It goes without saying that a commercial redfish fishery must open. Otherwise, if the data on shrimp consumption by that predator are accurate, will shrimp survive or will it suffer the same faith as cod?

The shrimp advisory committee has a mandate to advise the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans on management measures on the conservation and sustainable use of resources. That is the main avenue for consultations with industry. However, industry is completely unaware of the recommendations made to the minister or the measures suggested to them. There is a clear lack of transparency in this case.

Shrimp fishing is going through—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Ms. Roussel, we've gone way over the five-minute mark, so we'll have to end it there. Hopefully, in questioning, anything you didn't get out will come out then.

We'll now go to Mr. Mallet, for five minutes or less.

[Martin Mallet, Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for having us today on this very important study.

The Maritime Fishermen's Union represents over 1,300 multi-species inshore fishermen in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. They are independent owner-operators living and operating their small and medium-sized enterprises in rural coastal communities. They are real people living in real communities in which everybody thrives when the fisheries are healthy.

It is therefore in the vested interests of organizations like ours to work together with DFO, other stakeholders and indigenous groups towards building and sustaining healthy fisheries for our members and the communities that depend on them.

Therefore, any fisheries resource management decisions should always strongly consider what fishing organizations have to say about the science advice that is being provided to DFO management for review, as well as the socio-economic repercussions of these decisions. More importantly though, the proposed solutions to resource and management issues provided by fishing organizations need to be heard and strongly considered.

I have three recommendations for the committee today.

Here's number one: Use collaborative science. Many organizations believe and invest readily in furthering any science that can promote better management measures and long-term sustainability for our fisheries.

For us at the MFU, the creation of our own science branch, Homarus Inc., in 2002 has been a game-changer and a major source of collaborative science with DFO in the gulf region. On top of this, though, one very important and often forgotten benefit of such collaborative science processes is that they allow fishermen leaders within our membership to understand and buy into the science-backed management measures that are needed to improve our fisheries—for example, lobster and snow crab.

For DFO scientists, they enable them to get to know and discuss with fishermen their daily, yearly and even generational observations and insights with regard to ecosystem patterns experienced while fishing. On many occasions, science projects are then developed to test some of these patterns with success. On all occasions, it's been an opportunity for all parties to exchange, raise awareness on issues and develop trust in a common science process.

Where this formula has been used, we have seen success stories such as in the management of the lobster and snow crab fisheries in the southern Gulf of Saint Lawrence. However, with other resources such as herring and mackerel, we are currently facing challenges where this collaboration has not been established or is limited.

Recommendation number two is to adapt and properly fund DFO stock-assessment science to a changing ecosystem. In the past 20 years, fishermen have been witness to a rapidly changing ecosystem associated with climate change. This phenomenon is responsible in part for a multitude of significant changes in the ecology, distribution and biomass of several species in the southern Gulf of Saint Lawrence, as well as changing predation pressures.

As a result, it is becoming increasingly urgent for DFO to develop a holistic research strategy aimed at better understanding and predicting the impact of these changes and to adapt current DFO stock assessment protocols to changing fish ecology and distribution patterns.

Finally, the DFO science sector is well recognized as having extensive expertise in a wide range of fields, as stated to this committee by the DFO director general of the ecosystem science directorate, Dr. Bernard Vigneault. This expertise includes that in marine environment and aquatic ecosystems, hydrography, oceanography, fisheries, aquaculture and biotechnology. However, socio-economic science expertise is sorely lacking and is needed more than ever to help us better plan and adapt to these changes that are affecting our fisheries and the coastal communities that depend on them.

Recommendation number three is to put in place ad hoc committees and science networks. Where there's a need for specific issues to be solved in the fisheries sector, ad hoc committees should be put in place to study the issue from all scientific angles—natural and socio-economic—conduct regional consultations with stakeholder and indigenous groups, while also exploring outside-the-box ideas. Such committees would need to have representation from industry leaders, academia, indigenous groups, and DFO science and management. That being the case, recommendations emanating from these committees would garner better buy-in from stakeholder groups and would be a precious advisory tool for the minister in situations where difficult decisions need to be made.

The now-defunct fisheries resource conservation council, the FRCC, should be strongly considered as a potential model moving forward. One of the purposes of the FRCC was to make important resource management recommendations based on sound scientific and stakeholder advice, which then made sense to everyone. As an example, our organization has used the 1995 FRCC report on lobster conservation to convince our own membership of the merits of many conservation measures that have since been applied very successfully.

Another example of a successful collaboration—and I'll be done with this—in our sector has been the Canadian Fisheries Research Network. This network fostered new fundamental natural and social fisheries-related research with the help of industry, indigenous groups, academia and DFO science and management. A look back at this model and its successes by this committee is also strongly recommended and a good idea, maybe, moving forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Mallet.

We'll now go to Mr. Brown for five minutes or less, please.

[Dave Brown, Public Fishery Alliance]

My name if Dave Brown. I've lived and fished in the marine and freshwater environment of B.C. since 1991. I have served as the chair of the Squamish to Lillooet sport fish advisory committee for over 20 years. In 2017, I received the National Recreational Fisheries Award, one of only five given out that year by the fisheries minister. I volunteer as a avid angler in the collection and sampling of DNA in the ocean, and I've aided Tenderfoot Creek fish hatchery with the collection of their brood stock.

Today I'm representing the Public Fishery Alliance, which is a broad-based, non-profit society consisting of almost one thousand Canadian anglers, angling organizations, angling-dependent businesses and volunteer salmon and habitat restoration groups.

Chinook salmon are the most important species to the public fishery in British Columbia, and anglers recognize the need for conservation when specific stocks are experiencing decline. Since Minister Wilkinson implemented the wide-ranging non-retention policy for chinook in 2019 through much of southern B.C. waters during the important April to August fishing season, our public salmon fishery has been all but gutted.

The sport fishing advisory board submitted a suite of very modest chinook retention proposals in 2020 that were designed in collaboration with DFO fisheries and stock assessment staff using the most recent data. These small areas represented vital opportunities for salmon anglers and avoided migrating stocks of concern while measures to protect declining Fraser chinook were in place. Even though a management framework model deemed the proposals as low- or no-risk in the spring of 2021, then fisheries minister Bernadette Jordan rejected them. Both the sport fishing advisory board and the angling community were devastated by her decision. At the time, no rationale was offered as to why the proposals were refused.

Anticipating an opportunity to amend the SFAB proposals to offer even greater protection to Fraser chinook in the hope that they would be approved for spring of 2022—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Brown, can I ask you to pause for just a second? I have to talk to the committee. I have the timer paused, so you won't lose any time.

[Dave Brown]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

The bells are ringing for a vote in the House of Commons. I don't know if people intend to go to the chamber to vote, if they're voting from their phones or how they're doing this, but in order for us to continue on, even to the 15-minute mark of the bells, we would have to get unanimous consent to do that.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Agreed.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, from our side, we're good with staying and continuing until the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we'll continue on with statements for as long as we can before the vote takes place.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Chair, would it be possible to go right up to votes, since we all have the app? We don't even need 15 minutes to get ready.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

If everybody intends to do it with the app, then we can go right up to the 30-minute countdown, because you won't be able to vote on the app until that point anyway. If everybody is in agreement—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That works for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

—I guess that's what we'll do.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, everybody in the room has agreed to use the app to vote and stay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, that's perfect.

Continue on, Mr. Brown.

[Dave Brown]

We were dismayed to learn that the DFO salmon team openly stated they would not discuss any proposals from the SFAB related to chinook retention in April and May of 2022.

It is a responsibility for DFO to work toward providing Canadian anglers sustainable fishing opportunities when they become available. Signing the 2010 recreational vision statement, DFO signalled its intent to work with the sport fishing advisory board in developing fisheries for the Canadian public. This apparently is not happening in the Pacific region.

Prime Minister Trudeau's mandate letter to the fisheries minister states that the minister should: “Work to support sustainable, stable, prosperous fisheries through the continued implementation of the modernized Fisheries Act”, and as well “Advance consistent, sustainable and collaborative fisheries arrangements with Indigenous and non-Indigenous fish harvesters.”

It seems there are once again biased personnel within the DFO Pacific region's senior fisheries management staff who continue to block public chinook fishing opportunities for no valid reason. The stated rationale for these decisions is often contentious. For that reason, we fear fisheries decisions are being manipulated by the Pacific region based on politics and not science.

When the Public Fishery Alliance learned DFO would not consider the amended chinook retention proposals in 2022, several PFA members approached local Liberal members of Parliament as a way of seeking help with this important issue. Subsequently, a meeting was arranged with senior policy adviser Neil Macisaac, who suggested two parts of the SFAB suite of the chinook retention proposals were potentially acceptable and nearly approved in 2021.

Among others, Patrick Weiler, Liberal MP from the West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country riding, was supportive of those proposals. It seems senior DFO Pacific region staff persuaded Minister Murray to reject them as well, and this time on the grounds of policy, not merit, citing they would not reopen the 2021-22 salmon integrated management plan. The reason for the denial of critically important, data-supported fishing opportunities makes no sense.

As a consequence of the crushing south coast management actions in place since 2019, and the loss of the April and May 2022 fishing opportunities, the PFA has lost all confidence in senior Pacific region leadership.

The second issue I raise with you today is the failure of DFO to mark all hatchery chinook in the Pacific region. Right now, only 10% of chinook are marked. The public pays for the production of hatchery fish, yet because these fish are largely unmarked, the public is denied access to them. The public deserves access to the fish they are paying to produce. DFO spent over $1 million purchasing marking trailers. With these marking trailers, up to 60,000 coho or chinook can be marked per day, compared with doing just 10,000 manually.

By marking all hatchery chinook it would allow for selective harvest of chinook by first nations, recreational fishers and commercial fishers who could identify and release wild chinook and harvest hatchery chinook. This would allow for much-needed data to be collected with the heads of these salmon that were turned in through the salmon head recovery program.

Failure to mark hatchery chinook will significantly reduce or prevent selective fisheries and be detrimental to wild stock. Even hatchery managers will be unable to tell the difference between wild and hatchery chinook during brood capture. What would be the incentive to use selective fishing techniques if sport, first nation and commercial cannot tell the difference between hatchery and wild fish?

The Fraser and Skeena rivers are being severely impacted by non-selective fishing by gillnet fisheries, where nets are used to catch all types of salmon and steelhead, leading to mortalities of these stocks of concern. The government must move to remove gillnets and use selective fishing technologies, such as fish traps, which can be used to catch salmon without injuring or killing the ones you want to release.

We have seen the near extinction of Chilcotin and Thompson steelhead because of gillnets, and are witnessing the same impacts on the Skeena River. There needs to be urgent action to save these populations, remove gillnets and address the pinnipeds that feed on out-migrating smolts and returning adults. The British Columbia—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Brown, we're going to have to end it there. We've gone way over.