Fisheries Committee on June 9th, 2022

[Martin Mallet]

Not that I know of.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Again, Martin, I want to thank you for your recommendations, because this committee is interested in hearing them. We can dwell on the past, but I'm more interested in what has to be done and what changes have to be put in place to ensure that the knowledge of the fisher, whether it's on the east coast or west coast, is incorporated into the actual data that goes to the minister for key decisions. Could you give me your opinion on that? What would be the best structure?

Also, there was testimony given here where fisher groups had made recommendations over the years to improve conservation, especially on mackerel and herring, but it was ignored by the department. One was increasing the net mesh size to allow more to stay in the water, which would be simple conservation, but it was not accepted by the department. Is that correct?

[Martin Mallet]

Absolutely. We've been giving, in some cases, recommendations that are the same in some areas for over 20 years, for instance with mackerel, which would have had a significant impact.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Why was it discounted by the department?

[Martin Mallet]

That's a good question. In our case, we've been asking for more selective gear to be used with herring and with mackerel, for instance. In terms of the science and recommendations that get to the minister's office, we do not see the recommendations. If there's any lobbying or any political—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

If there are any gaps or misses, you don't have a chance to opine on those?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry, Mr. Morrissey. Your time has gone over.

We'll now go to Monsieur Desilets for two and a half minutes, please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Lanteigne.

Mr. Lanteigne, were you aware that senior officials at Fisheries and Oceans Canada apparently used their discretion to make decisions about science reports? Basically, they did not address what the scientists were calling for, bypassing those recommendations and taking a different approach.

[Jean Lanteigne]

Thank you for your question.

We have actual proof of that. In 2018, if I'm not mistaken, we challenged the quota allocation, but the department ultimately decided otherwise. When we subsequently questioned the approach and the reason behind the decision, the department backtracked and gave us what we had been asking for.

Someone somewhere had tilted the playing field on the sly. Nothing about it was transparent, and it's that lack of transparency the department is widely criticized for.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What I gather, then, is that the department does not always follow the advice of scientists. Is that true?

[Jean Lanteigne]

That is indeed true.

Department staff who work on the science always say that they have done their jobs; they tell their managers what the science says, and management makes the decisions. Sometimes, staff are uncomfortable with those decisions, so it's clear that there really is disagreement when there shouldn't be.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

What's the solution, in your view?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets. There are only three seconds left, so there's not enough time for a question or an answer.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to ask some of my fellow coastal B.C. witnesses here today about the pacific salmon strategy initiative. We know that this initiative came into place about a year ago and that there's been minimal use of funds to date.

Everybody has spoken about the importance of working alongside local communities, first nations and those who are on the water. I'm wondering if any of the witnesses could confirm if they've had any consultation with DFO and what that's looked like.

Perhaps I could start with Mr. Bos.

[Christopher J. Bos]

As for my involvement in the sport fishing advisory board, we've had a presentation to the board. I'm sure that can be confirmed by Martin Paish, who's the chair of the board. Very little has been done on a local consultation basis with the angling community. Although we sit here with a very positive outlook for this, not much has been forthcoming as to how it will be rolled out.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Brown, could you answer the same question?

[Dave Brown]

I sort of agree with what Chris said. There's been a little bit of information through the SFAB, but not much has been rolled out at all.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Bird or Mr. Paish, could you respond as well, please?

[Martin Paish]

I agree exactly with the sentiments that Mr. Brown and Mr. Bos provided.

Through the Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia, we have had more consultation on the PSSI than the SFAB has, but the challenge we have is that it's still extremely high level. We're not getting down to the details. We were promised that 2022 would be a year of consultation and bringing stakeholder communities into the PSSI development.

We have consistently asked the PSSI that we be allowed to help bake the cake rather than just pick the flavour of the icing. It's June; it's 2022. We're still feeling like we're picking the flavour of the icing.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Again, I forgot to set my timer, but I'm going to keep going until I get cut off here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 20 seconds.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Oh dear.

I wanted to ask a little bit.... Perhaps I can ask Mr. Bird and Mr. Paish, because they're right next to me, to provide in written form what their experiences have been around having staff on the ground from DFO to work with. Have they noticed that they've been accessible and available through their work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll have to allow that to be a written submission, Ms. Barron, on this, unless we get another slot along the way. That's all your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Small for five minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Mallet.

This marks the 30-year anniversary of the closure of the northern cod fishery. That was supposed to be a three-to-five year closure. Now the mackerel fishery has been closed. The decision is quite contentious among harvesters, and the science is under question.

How long has your organization, the MFU, been lobbying DFO for harvesters to be involved in collaborative science?

[Martin Mallet]

We've been asking for collaborative science since the foundation of our organization back in 1977. In many cases, we've had success, as I mentioned earlier, with lobster and snow crab. In other instances, it is lacking and it is, I think, the basis of why we have some issues today.